Mentor Meeting 13 October (#3243382) · Issues · project / mentoring

Mentor Meeting 13 October

>>> [!note] Migrated issue   Reported by: [rachel_norfolk](https://www.drupal.org/user/66273) >>> This meeting is on 13 October 2021 in the #mentoring channel on Drupal Slack at 2000 UTC. This meeting is text-only, no audio or video, and is asynchronous so everyone can join in as they're available for about 24 hours. After that we'll capture notes from the threads. Please add agenda items by editing this issue summary or commenting below. Draft Agenda: :drupal-mentoring: :drupal-mentoring: :drupal-mentoring: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Drupal Core Mentoring Meta Meeting! :calendar: This meeting: ➤ Usually happens on the second Wednesday of the month, or as needed for events. ➤ is text only! ➤ happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously. ➤ refers to various issues and plans tracking in the mentoring project on d.o: <a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/mentoring">https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/mentoring</a> ➤ :star: Please comment on the meeting agenda issue `<a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/mentoring/issues/3243382">https://www.drupal.org/project/mentoring/issues/3243382</a>` so we can grant you credit for attending/contributing! :zero: *Roll Call!* Who’s here today? Comment in a thread here to introduce yourself and one thing that you have learned in the last month, if you'd like. :one: DrupalCon Europe 2021 October 4-7 (threads coming...) :one: :one: Well, what went well, what can we improve? What did we learn? :one: :two: Contribution Tools - DrupalPod. Success? :one: :three: Contribution Platform documentation: <a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/mentoring/issues/3218714">https://www.drupal.org/project/mentoring/issues/3218714</a> bsnodgrass reviewed this in the last month and the next step is to incorporate that into the current work-in-progress document. We do need to get this from a markdown file to actual docs. :one: :four: We will be "in person" at DrupalCon Portland in April. What did we learn here that we can take with us? What should we use to organise various items we track, dates, mentors, events, mentor dinner, attendance, issues (Contribution platform, Spreadsheet of Awesomeness)? :two: We need help to define the difference between a Novice issue and a good first issue so that we as mentors can triage those issues effectively - <a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3238382">https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3238382</a> . The current state of the issue is that webchick really thinks we should follow GitHub (for good reason), and that we should keep first-time contributor and next-time contributor experience. Finding issues that are Novice issues, but are **not** good first issues would help define what the difference is. :three: DrupalPod :three: :one: DrupalPod next steps for novice contribution :four: Discover Drupal Mentoring :four: :one: How are you doing? :four: :two: From @volkswagenchick @mherchel: we would love to gauge interest and check in with all of our mentors again. Please respond back with any concerns, questions, etc :four: :three: From @volkswagenchick @mherchel: We also are looking into maybe setting up one-on-one mentors. Is this something you'd be interested in? Let us know soon so we can offer that to students if enough of us have the bandwidth. The time commitment would be the current expectation of about an hour a week. :five: Open floor/other topics :six: That's it it for now! Continue the conversation in the threads above and in issues. And volunteer!!!! <h2>Transcript</h2> :zero: *Roll Call!* Who’s here today? Comment in a thread here to introduce yourself and one thing that you have learned in the last month, if you'd like. <pre>Rachel Lawson  1 day ago Rachel here. I learned that talking live on camera sometimes makes me forget people’s names!! oops :wave: 1 :confusedparrot: 2 AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago AmyJune here.. I have learned that  metal utensils are still not microwavable… :fire: 2 :wave: 1 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Matthew here. I learned that power rakes exist and that maybe I should use one next year. :meow_shocked: 1 Ofer Shaal:phase2:  1 day ago Ofer Shaal. I learned that using the wrong tools can slow you down. :wave: 1 :slowparrot: 2 Gregg Marshall  1 day ago Gregg here.  I learned how to use Shaal's great new tools :wave: 3 :drupalparrot: 4 Brian Gilbert  1 day ago Brian Gilbert. I learned that the M1 Mac Mini is viable for development now! @AmyJune (volkswagenchick she/her) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyTmJX_TC84 :laughing: 2 Kristen Pol  1 day ago Kristen, catching up late, I learned that Matthew learned that power rakes exist and now I'm very curious what "power rakes" are! :smile: 1 :same: 2 Anto Jose  1 day ago Anto, catching up way later. I learned that "learned" is the preferred way of spelling it in US and Canada, while "learnt" is used in areas speaking British English. https://www.grammarly.com/blog/learned-learnt/ :point_up::skin-tone-3: 1 Rachel Lawson  1 day ago Indeed, Anto! (I try to write US English whilst at work. I’m far from consistent with it, though!) Elli Ludwigson:drupal-mentoring:  17 hours ago Elli, catching up the latest. I learned more about how to add captions to videos and determined hiring a professional was easier/faster. Just not reasonable to not have captions available on video content these days.</pre>:one: DrupalCon Europe 2021 October 4-7 (threads coming...) :one: :one: Well, what went well, what can we improve? What did we learn? Rachel Lawson 1 day ago I think we coped with the strangeness of virtual once again! Where it worked, it worked. :+1: 1 AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring: 1 day ago Time zones were hard for me.. but maybe that wasnt something i learned.. but something I need to think about a little more. I didnt have anyone show up for the triage BoF… maybe more media??? :heavy_plus_symbol: 3 Rachel Lawson 1 day ago I think we know how to do 1st time contribution so much better now than we did - nice one @Chris Darke!! (and others) :yes: 2 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring: 1 day ago We should have more time to plan between conferences and it was probably hard on organizers as we were not as organized without the spreadsheet of awesomeness. :heavy_plus_symbol: 4 Rachel Lawson 1 day ago Yes, we could have communicated things better - we didn’t put someone in charge of comms nice and early and that had the effect mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring: 1 day ago I felt like DrupalCon was a good chance to start triaging on tuesdays again. :heavy_plus_symbol: 1 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring: 1 day ago Mentors and leads that were available did a good job of being available and helping out. mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring: 1 day ago We had less novice contributors than at Virtual North America. I have some theories about that... Maybe the initiative focuses really helped for a virtual conference in the spring as Leslie's Project Browser initiative seem to be a good topic. :heavy_plus_symbol: 3 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring: 1 day ago We could improve documentation of BBB and OpenSocial by getting the issue about that to a state of relative doneness so that more people can contribute to it later. Rachel Lawson 1 day ago Yes, I think there is a lot of be said for the focus of an initiative Rachel Lawson 1 day ago Makes a “reason” to be there mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring: 1 day ago As a mentor, I felt like I was able to engage with the novices I had more and I felt that engagement will probably lead to continual contribution :partyparrot: AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring: 1 day ago ^^ Yes. Rachel Lawson 1 day ago YES!! Smaller number of new contributors probably led to MORE long term contributors, weirdly Brian Gilbert 1 day ago Timezones make it really hard especially when I have kids at home during lockdown (I have to get up to help them with school work, so my body doesn't really handle staying up in the middle of the night during this) Brian Gilbert 1 day ago We should probably start figuring out how to manage this with mixed mode (some in person, and some online) Kristen Pol 1 day ago Reading through this great feedback ^ sadly the time zones made it hard for me to contribute to this... If we do remote again, I do wonder if it would make sense to have a US time zone contribution event that is in tangent with the European ones... like we did for the porting event where we did 24 hours and handed off to people... or maybe that detracts from the Europe focus... not sure :woman-shrugging: Kristen Pol 1 day ago kudos to you who did deal with the time zone difficulties! Elli Ludwigson:drupal-mentoring: 17 hours ago I think the initiative focuses were really helpful for NA, yes! And I should’ve done more on comms for both DCEU and the summit. Maybe next time more drafted emails handed to the event organizers re contribution things. I wondered about the spreadsheet, which in the past had seemed partially duplicative. Now with two event platforms (open social and hopin plus events.d.o) there’s even more to keep track of for people signing up. How can we streamline more, especially if NA21 will be hybrid? :one: :two: Contribution Tools - DrupalPod. Success? <pre>mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago :ohyeah: :100: 2 AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I think so - I showed 2 new contributors how to use it and they were blown away Rachel Lawson  1 day ago Ha ha! I must admit watching @shaal working with one contributor was awesome - really helped us concentrate on the issue rather than on the tooling (though the tooling helped us get there) mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I spent an hour extra than I thought because my first instinct about something wrong with the Drupal code was right, but then went about thinking my than unmerged DrupalPod PR had a problem. Having a troubleshooting / faq may help with that. Ofer Shaal:phase2:  1 day ago I'm not objective about this topic :grin: I was trying to make myself available if people have any issues. I don't know of any issues or bugs that were found. Ofer Shaal:phase2:  1 day ago As part of contribution day, we got fancy new documentation for DrupalPod! https://www.drupal.org/docs/develop/development-tools/drupalpod :heavy_plus_symbol: 5 :blue_heart: 3 Kristen Pol  1 day ago DrupalPod is amazing... thanks @shaal :blue_heart: :heavy_plus_symbol: 3 Ofer Shaal:phase2:  23 hours ago :blush:</pre>:one: :three: Contribution Platform documentation: <a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/mentoring/issues/3218714">https://www.drupal.org/project/mentoring/issues/3218714</a> bsnodgrass reviewed this in the last month and the next step is to incorporate that into the current work-in-progress document. We do need to get this from a markdown file to actual docs. <pre>Rachel Lawson  1 day ago where should the docs for the platform be, do you think? AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Isnt that always the hardest part? where does it live? Rachel Lawson  1 day ago yes - of course! AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago https://www.drupal.org/community/contributor-guide/contribution-areas but prob not?? ugh AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Actually one level up on AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago https://www.drupal.org/community/contributor-guide :heavy_plus_symbol: 3 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Pasting this section into the issue and coming up with a next step should move the issue along. Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)  1 day ago Anything that can be done to simplify the platform would be great. People found it hard to get to the BBB. Even though I set the event to accept enrollment from outside the group. :heavy_plus_symbol: 3 Elli Ludwigson:drupal-mentoring:  17 hours ago Wherever the documentation ends up, we should definitely include a link on opensocial… and change the “help videos” menu item to just “Help and FAQ”?</pre>:one: :four: We will be "in person" at DrupalCon Portland in April. What did we learn here that we can take with us? What should we use to organise various items we track, dates, mentors, events, mentor dinner, attendance, issues (Contribution platform, Spreadsheet of Awesomeness)? <pre>AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago well, maybe we learned that we start now? rather than later? :heavy_plus_symbol: 1 Rachel Lawson  1 day ago YES mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago We can email mentors again and we have a place to point mentors to sign-up for something we can show them. :partyparrot: :point_up::skin-tone-3: 1 AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I am a little under water until mid-nov with work presentations. But I can commit to really dedicating some time starting in Dec. mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago We haven't been tracking the deadlines for a DrupalCon because it's been fairly fluid in the last couple of years, but I think we need to do that again. :heavy_plus_symbol: 1 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I hope air travel is a bit less alarming than my most recent experience. AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Oh no!! I have had some OK experiences. But this was over the summer. Brian Gilbert  1 day ago will it be 100% in person for Portland? Kristen Pol  1 day ago I've signed up to be an in-person mentor in Portland but it will depend on the state of Covid. Having a hybrid option in case some of us don't feel comfortable being in-person would be great (edited) :point_up::skin-tone-3: 1 Rachel Lawson  1 day ago Whilst the conference itself will be in-person only, that doesn't necessarily mean we have to be. Contribution Mentoring is entirely under our control - we just have “space” in the schedule. :confused: 1 Rachel Lawson  1 day ago November is going to be an odd month for me. There may be times I'm not available. But yes, let's begin in earnest in November Rachel Lawson  23 hours ago @xjm If we wanted to get back into the routine of trying to have a core commit during mentored contribution, what would you see as the challenges we need to overcome? :this: 1 xjm  17 hours ago Well, same as always, really. Identifying a good RTBC during the sprint needs mentors looking for it plus a couple dedicated reviewers. It's always a race against the clock. And need to book the committer for the afternoon so they can review it when it's ready. :heavy_plus_symbol: 1 :thankful: 1</pre>:two: We need help to define the difference between a Novice issue and a good first issue so that we as mentors can triage those issues effectively - <a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3238382">https://www.drupal.org/project/drupalorg/issues/3238382</a> . The current state of the issue is that webchick really thinks we should follow GitHub (for good reason), and that we should keep first-time contributor and next-time contributor experience. Finding issues that are Novice issues, but are **not** good first issues would help define what the difference is. <pre>Rachel Lawson  1 day ago this sounds like adding a role and task(s) tot he contributor guide that describe how mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Yes, once we know how, we can add to the guide. AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago WP has a nifty “good first bug” tag.. mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I read a bunch of research on good first issues, which the research is still pretty new, and it seems like the two major factors / conditions for first-time contributors (and possibly novices in general) is engagement and time-to-commit/merge. mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago which makes sense. If we worked on an issue at DrupalCon and it got committed during a live commit, we have a sense of pride and want to stay in the community and do more :heavy_plus_symbol: 1 AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/good-first-bugs :heavy_plus_symbol: 1 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago And when we/novices engage on an issue with an initiative, it helps them become more involved and hopefully stay with the community. mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago What's weird about WordPress, is that the Trac tag is "good-first-bug", but then Gutenberg uses "good first issue" and "good first review", @AmyJune (volkswagenchick she/her). AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago yeah - i know :bow: 1 AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Gutenberg is in GitHub, yes? mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Yes :white_tick: 1 Kristen Pol  1 day ago I love this idea! Totally agree that Novice != Good first issue (or whatever it ends up being called) in all cases (edited) </pre>:three: DrupalPod :three: :one: DrupalPod next steps for novice contribution <pre>Rachel Lawson  1 day ago I think Chris and Ofer got together videos etc that explain how it is used BUT do they apply equally when we are in person AND how will we know if they stay accurate as the tool develops? Ofer Shaal:phase2:  1 day ago (copying from another thread here) https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C4K9UPX9P/p1634156411303600?thread_ts=1634155820.297100&cid=C4K9UPX9P Ofer Shaal As part of contribution day, we got fancy new documentation for DrupalPod! https://www.drupal.org/docs/develop/development-tools/drupalpod From a thread in #mentoring | 13 Oct | View reply :pirateparrot: 2 Ofer Shaal:phase2:  1 day ago The planned upcoming work on DrupalPod, is focusing on performance (wait only 30 seconds instead of 3 minutes) :heart_eyes: 1 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Another next step for mentored contribution is to improve getting started docs and make it interactive. Ofer Shaal:phase2:  1 day ago I originally recorded the videos in small sections, and I think that would be easy to maintain it like that (instead of the 1 full long video). mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Do you think having the vscode extension be a Vue (or other front-end framework) app would be too much code for an extension, @shaal? Ofer Shaal:phase2:  1 day ago Also, right after Drupalcon, I merged the testing branch. so now it's so easy to run tests in DrupalPod. Would be nice to add documentation + video about it. :pirateparrot: 2 :heavy_plus_symbol: 2 :blue_heart: 1 Rachel Lawson  1 day ago That testing branch was really useful :+1: 1 mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Thanks to Matt Glaman for all the ddev commands and setup from about 1 or 1.5 years ago. Kristen Pol  1 day ago Agree that short videos are easier to maintain. For some of us who don't like watching how-to videos so much, they are easier to "consume" as well :slightly_smiling_face: :heavy_plus_symbol: 1 Kristen Pol  1 day ago @mradcliffe What are you thinking by adding Vue (or other frontend framework)? Would this be for contributing to the decoupled initiative?</pre>:four: Discover Drupal Mentoring :four: :one: How are you doing? <pre>myJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Whelp - there are not many students asking questions in the DD slack space.. mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I was feeling a bit overwhelmed for time in the last month so I haven't been participating actively (only passively monitoring the channel). AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Mario reported that some of his students could benefit from 1:1 - so I have reached out to mentors to guage interest in shifting to 1:1 for folks who could use it AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago We are learning as we go. Elli Ludwigson:drupal-mentoring:  17 hours ago Pretty busy with new job and therefore not on slack much. Feeling sad I didn’t have time for three events I’d usually be all over but hoping to attend events for work purposes soon (probably not in person for another year though). :pirateparrot: 1 Elli Ludwigson:drupal-mentoring:  17 hours ago (just realized this was a specific DD thread not a personal checkin and I am a dorrrrk)</pre>:four: :two: From @volkswagenchick @mherchel: we would love to gauge interest and check in with all of our mentors again. Please respond back with any concerns, questions, etc <pre>mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I didn't realize that the first email wanted me to email back. AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago HA - oops! mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I feel like we could engage with students more if we were able to attend a zoom session. mradcliffe:drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago Is most learning and contact happening in a zoom or other virtual environment? AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I agree. I have brought that up as an alternative.. DrupalEasy has office hours in Zoom 3X a week and lots of folks show up :heavy_plus_symbol: 1</pre>:four: :three: From @volkswagenchick @mherchel: We also are looking into maybe setting up one-on-one mentors. Is this something you'd be interested in? Let us know soon so we can offer that to students if enough of us have the bandwidth. The time commitment would be the current expectation of about an hour a week. <pre>If that helps students, plus one :heavy_plus_symbol: . I think that maybe a contribution-day like virtual call where we have topic table breakout rooms could then lead to students feeling more confident about posting publicly in chat to ask for help and maybe help mentors engage a student on Slack to see how they're doing on a specific task.</pre>:five: Open floor/other topics <pre>Rachel Lawson  1 day ago We have a few Discover Drupal threads tonight. What do we think about that being something we are doing here? AmyJune Hineline (volkswagenchick she/her):drupal-mentoring:  1 day ago I like the transparency, as it happens in a  ” private space” right now.. might garner interest for the next year of mentors/students. Would love input from others :heavy_plus_symbol: 2 Brian Gilbert  1 day ago @AmyJune (volkswagenchick she/her) the utensils may have gotten close to the wall of the microwave, I think that was a clear case that would cause arcing in his video :heavy_plus_symbol: 1 Brian Gilbert  1 day ago I have heard some musings that needing to sign up to another site for the mentoring stuff isn't ideal, but don't really know that can be merged into d.o very easily.. or with any speed.. so just making it known.. :eyes: 1 :point_up::skin-tone-3: 1 Rachel Lawson  1 day ago I would very, very much like the drupalcontributions site to be a testbed for any SSO implementation on d.o :eyes: 1 Rachel Lawson  1 day ago ^ @hestenet (he/him) Tim Lehnen  21 hours ago It's a good candidate, yeah</pre>:six: That's it it for now! Continue the conversation in the threads above and in issues. And volunteer!!!!

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