>>> [!note] Migrated issue <!-- Drupal.org comment --> <!-- Migrated from issue #3578687. --> Reported by: [jdleonard](https://www.drupal.org/user/80902) >>> <h2>Google Doc</h2> <p>You might find the <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DtOe1Llfemwl7O0yNs5E1hrY9RwXO0ij0GAng2onCqU/edit?tab=t.0">Google Doc</a> for this meeting (from which the notes are copied) to be easier to consume and to include additional detail (e.g. comments) not present in this issue. If this meeting hasn't happened yet, find and add to the agenda in that doc anytime before the meeting.</p> <h2>Member Platform Meeting</h2> <p> April 9, 2026 at 10:00am CDT </p> <h3>Meeting Notifications, Agendas, Past Notes, Slack Channel</h3> <p> See <a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/member/issues/3505938">[Meta] Member Platform meetings</a> </p> <h3>Who is here?</h3> <p> Include your Drupal.org username in parentheses if you have one. </p> <ul> <li>JD Leonard (jdleonard)</li> <li>Scott Wolpow (scottwolpow)</li> <li>Phil alonso (philalonso)</li> <li>Erica Stevenson (speckles)</li> <li>Mike Crawford (pelicani)</li> <li>Bob Snodgrass (bsnodgrass)</li> <li>Andrew Morton (mortona2k)</li> <li>Adam John (mradamjohn)</li> <li>Steve Ayers (bluegeek9)</li> </ul> <h3>What Topics Should We Discuss? / Limited Human Notes</h3> <ul> <li><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PTVqVCN7QQSJoqg0msGBNy--FRP3jAjp/view?usp=drive_link">Recording</a></li> <li>Quick introductions</li> <li>Track statuses and next steps</li> <ul> <li>Event management / event registration</li> <ul> <li>groups.drupal.org initiative - see: - #groups-drupal-org-initiative on the Drupal Slack channel</li> <li>Event module</li> <li>Entity registration support for Contacts as registrants</li> </ul> <li>Composing/sending emails to members</li> <ul> <li>Recap of yesterday&rsquo;s email-specific meeting</li> </ul> <li>Member profile and directory (AJ)</li> <ul> <li>UI for member- or public-facing directory and profiles</li> <li>Org chart / hierarchical relationships</li> </ul> <li>Membership tracking (CRM Membership; not needed for MP 1.0, but high current interest)</li> <li>CRM (Steve A) - Is there a roadmap and timeframe for a stable release of CRM?</li> <li>Wireframes / mockups (Scott W)</li> <li>Documentation</li> </ul> <li>Working session following the meeting</li> <ul> <li>Suggested focus: <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-w4NHFVwWNtHhx1U-EUzMyCGkXcewEi4Ke44CCDHELM/edit">Event module requirements</a></li> </ul> </ul> <h3>Action Items</h3> <ul> <li> </li> </ul> <h2>Fathom AI Summary</h2> <p> <strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp">VIEW RECORDING - 146 mins (No highlights)</a></strong> </p> <h3><strong>Meeting Purpose</strong></h3> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=686.0">Review track statuses and spec out the core Event module.</a> </p> <h3><strong>Key Takeaways</strong></h3> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=4109.0">Event Module Spec Defined: The core Event module will be a lean API for ambitious site builders, not a full end-user solution. It will provide a required format field (Online, In-person, Hybrid, None, TBD) to enable conditional logic in the ecosystem.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1134.0">Email Strategy: The email system will separate creation from sending. It will use the Easy Email module for templating and rely on external Email Service Providers (ESPs) for delivery, with a pluggable architecture to support various services.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1857.0">CRM Progress: The CRM project is focused on migrations, building a meta-project for reusable services. A Release Candidate is blocked by two key issues: granular access control and a mechanism for fieldable subtypes.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=725.0">Groups.drupal.org Initiative: The team will contribute to the 6-month initiative by advocating for the new Event module as the standard for event listings, aiming to replace Meetup for Drupal groups.</a></strong></li> </ul> <h3><strong>Topics</strong></h3> <h4><strong>Event Module Spec (Working Session)</strong></h4> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=4627.0">Goal: Define the core Event module as a lean API for ambitious site builders, not a full end-user solution.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=4224.0">Core Fields:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=4676.0">Title: Required for backend navigation. Site builders can hide it from the frontend using auto_entity_label.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=5090.0">Description &amp; Summary: Renamed to "Full Description" and "Short Description" to clarify their roles in list vs. detail views.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=5569.0">Format: A required field to enable ecosystem-wide conditional logic.</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=6591.0">Values: Online, In-person, Hybrid, None (for non-attendable calendar items), TBD (for planned events with an unknown format).</a></strong></li> </ul> </ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=7415.0">Location Handling:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=7649.0">A separate, fieldable Location entity type will be used, with bundles for Virtual and Physical.</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=7702.0">The format field will conditionally expose the relevant location fields.</a></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=8236.0">Unresolved: How to manage reusable vs. one-time locations and granular access control for location CRUD operations.</a></strong></li> </ul> </ul> <h4><strong>Email System Strategy</strong></h4> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2887.0">Core Principle: Separate email creation/archiving from the sending process.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1193.0">Creation &amp; Templating:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1193.0">Use the Easy Email module as the foundation.</a></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1286.0">Limitation: Easy Email is not designed for sending to lists or scheduling. The team will build a layer on top to add this functionality.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=3265.0">Long-term Goal: A pluggable architecture for different composers (CKEditor, Drupal Canvas).</a></strong></li> </ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1388.0">Sending &amp; Delivery:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1388.0">Rely on external Email Service Providers (ESPs) like SendGrid or Mailgun for delivery.</a></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1388.0">Rationale: Avoids the technical and reputational risks of managing a self-hosted email server.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1517.0">Architecture: A pluggable API will interface with multiple ESPs.</a></strong></li> </ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=3064.0">Future Scope:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=3417.0">Recipient Segmentation: A "smart group" feature, potentially built on Entity Query.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=3709.0">Tracking: Open/click tracking (via Drupal Visitors module or ESPs) and bounce handling.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=3981.0">Privacy: Defaults will be privacy-aware, with architecture supporting different organizational policies.</a></strong></li> </ul> </ul> <h4><strong>CRM Project Status</strong></h4> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1857.0">Focus: Migrations.</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1863.0">A meta-project is being built to provide reusable services and base forms for common migration patterns (e.g., CSV, nodes).</a></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=1962.0">Schema.org Alignment: Exploring REST resources to structure data for easier consumption by external tools like Power BI.</a></strong></li> </ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2291.0">Release Candidate (RC) Blockers:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2291.0">Access Granularity: Deciding between Drupal's access policy and grant systems. The team will consult an expert (Nick Lassler) for guidance.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2384.0">Fieldable Subtypes: A mechanism to manage contact-specific fields without creating new bundles.</a></strong></li> </ul> </ul> <h4><strong>Other Track Updates</strong></h4> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2580.0">Wireframes: Scott Wolpow is leading the effort in Balsamiq and will share progress in Slack.</a></strong></li> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2654.0">Documentation: JD Leonard and Adam John will connect to standardize documentation, which is currently fragmented across multiple documents.</a></strong></li> </ul> <h3><strong>Next Steps</strong></h3> <ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2654.0">JD Leonard:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2654.0">Connect with Adam John to standardize documentation.</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2291.0">Consult Nick Lassler on CRM access control architecture.</a></li> </ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2580.0">Scott Wolpow:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2580.0">Share wireframe progress in Slack.</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2627.0">Grant Balsamiq access to team members upon request.</a></li> </ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2291.0">Steven Ayers:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2128.0">Review the food company database link from Scott Wolpow to assess migration complexity.</a></li> </ul> <li><strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2746.0">Team:</a></strong></li> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=2746.0">Continue refining email system requirements in Slack.</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?tab=summary&amp;timestamp=8278.0">Finalize the core Event module spec, focusing on location handling and access control.</a></li> </ul> </ul> <h3><strong>Action Items</strong></h3> <ul> <li><strong>Raise mic volume in Zoom settings</strong> - <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=469.9999">WATCH (5 secs)</a></li> <li><strong>Message JD in Slack re: groups.drupal.org; JD connects to initiative</strong> - <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=857.9999">WATCH (5 secs)</a></li> <li><strong>Consult Nick Lassler re: CRM access granularity (policy vs grants)</strong> - <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2325.9999">WATCH (5 secs)</a></li> <li><strong>Share Balsamiq wireframes in Slack; present next call</strong> - <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2583.9999">WATCH (5 secs)</a></li> <li><strong>Schedule next-week sync w/ Adam re: documentation standardization</strong> - <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2728.9999">WATCH (5 secs)</a></li> <li><strong>Update Event module spec: add Group integration, location access, reusable vs one-time locations</strong> - <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7991.695922">WATCH (5 secs)</a></li> </ul> <h2>Fathom AI Transcript</h2> <p> <strong><a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp">VIEW RECORDING - 146 mins (No highlights)</a></strong> </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=0.86">@0:00</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I will give you love. Thank you. Thank you. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=150.4">@2:30</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Scott, are you all right? I'm fine. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=156.38">@2:36</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> What's Scott doing? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=157.84">@2:37</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> A lot of noise coming from that end. Oh, that sounds about right. Clearing my throat. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=164.34">@2:44</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Good morning, everyone. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=210.62">@3:30</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I'm going to have to bug out a little early today. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=212.78">@3:32</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> I've got a 10.30, so that's why I, if you see me drop real quick. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=222.9">@3:42</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> There's a meetup in Fox Valley next Wednesday, I hear. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=229.8">@3:49</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> That's correct. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=233.02">@3:53</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I will be there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=234.54">@3:54</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> All right, awesome. Look, he's got his CRM hat on. Look at that guy. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=256.09">@4:16</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I will even have at least one CRM beanie to give away. So if you were looking for the extra reason. </p> <p> The extra reason for people to come? Yeah, to Fox Valley. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=273.3">@4:33</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Ah, cool. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=275.9">@4:35</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Does anyone else get the endless calls from people from India looking to build websites for you? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=295.43">@4:55</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Sure. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=295.95">@4:55</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> If by calls you mean LinkedIn, then yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=300.57">@5:00</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> But it's all like they have the same script. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=303.71">@5:03</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=304.33">@5:04</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Well, I don't know if it's &ndash; I get a lot of people on LinkedIn trying to sell me stuff, I guess is what I should say. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=312.13">@5:12</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I get the call &ndash; it's always from a number that I don't recognize but could be a potential business, someone else. </p> <p> And it's always, it's Scott there who's calling and how can I help you? And it takes them three or four sentences to get out what they're trying to do. </p> <p> And it's like, you know, they know nothing that people are calling are not qualified to qualify me. And I now have an email address. </p> <p> It's send your information to this email address. And half the time they send it to the wrong email address, the one that associates the domain. </p> <p> And I respond back, since you can't follow a simple direction, how in the hell would you be able to follow complex directions like building a website? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=360.0">@6:00</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> All right. Let's get started, everyone. Good to see y'all. I'll put a link in the Zoom to the meeting notes doc. </p> <p> Please add yourself there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=370.28">@6:10</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Yay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=371.04">@6:11</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And I'll keep spamming it as people join because they can't see the past history, I think. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=376.36">@6:16</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> That's correct. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=379.36">@6:19</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> All right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=382.01">@6:22</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Why don't we do some quick introductions because I'm pretty sure that not everybody here has met everybody else. So I'm JD. </p> <p> I live in Austin, Texas, and I'm interested in member platform for my neighborhood association as well as for my local Drupal users group. </p> <p> I'm to pass it over to Erica. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=401.67">@6:41</a> - <strong>Erica Stevenson</strong> </p> <p> Oh, I am from Toronto, and I'm interested largely inside the member platform for kind of trying to develop skills, but also just as a tool to be used that I really appreciate the mission of what we're trying to do. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=420.73">@7:00</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And you've to pass it over to somebody. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=422.75">@7:02</a> - <strong>Erica Stevenson</strong> </p> <p> Okay. How about Bob? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=426.67">@7:06</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Bob is from St. Charles, Illinois, 40 miles west of Chicago, where DrupalCon was held this year. And also working with the Fox Valley Drupal user group and a whole bunch of other things. </p> <p> So, yeah. Let's see, Phil, since you're un-mic. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=449.4">@7:29</a> - <strong>Phil Alonso</strong> </p> <p> Howdy, Bob. I'm a member of the Fox Valley Drupal group as well. live about five miles away from Bob in an equestrian community called Wayne, Illinois. </p> <p> <strong>ACTION ITEM: Raise mic volume in Zoom settings -<a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=469.9999"> WATCH</a></strong> </p> <p> And I'm interested in the member platform and DrupalCRM to help build back up our local group. And I'll pass it on to another member of our Fox Valley group. </p> <p> member Smith. Thank Steven Ayers. And before Steven goes, Phil, want to note your volume is quite low, so you might want to bump up that microphone volume. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=487.36">@8:07</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=487.9">@8:07</a> - <strong>Phil Alonso</strong> </p> <p> It's just the built-in microphone. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=489.74">@8:09</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Don't know. If you go into your settings, usually there's a way to bump the... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=492.98">@8:12</a> - <strong>Phil Alonso</strong> </p> <p> Okay. Thanks for the tip. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=498.16">@8:18</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> It reminds me of an awesome song, but I won't repeat the lyrics, so... Oh, anywho, I'm Steve Ayers. I'm a maintainer at Drupal CRM, and membership management is, I guess, one of the gas giants in the solar system of CRM. </p> <p> Andrew, how about you? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=523.38">@8:43</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Hey, Andrew in Seattle, long-time Drupal Dev. I'm generally interested in membership as, like, a platform that I could develop on if I'm, like, serving other clients that have needs for membership websites. </p> <p> So I'm really interested in helping Kevin. Potentially getting to the point of, like, building out site templates as starting points within this ecosystem, but we'll see how far off we are with that. </p> <p> Let's see, who hasn't gone yet? Mike? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=552.811">@9:12</a> - <strong>Mike C</strong> </p> <p> Mike Crawford, I'm in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area. I got into the member platform in Atlanta when it was just starting, and I've always been interested in CRM. </p> <p> It's fun and stuff. There are a lot of groups around me that legalize these, and I just like learning these things. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=581.061">@9:41</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And you're next, is everybody gone except Adam? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=585.101">@9:45</a> - <strong>Mike C</strong> </p> <p> Adam? Whoa, hi there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=588.401">@9:48</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, I'm the phone number in the list, probably. Hey, so I guess we're doing some sort of an introduction, is that right, JD? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=595.931">@9:55</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, off the cuff. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=598.911">@9:58</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> All right, well. Yeah, Adam John, happy to be here. Member Platform is a keen interest in that I obviously do Drupal Dev as well as manage some IT stuff, teams and stuff around technology. </p> <p> And Member Platform as a concept is something I've worked in well before I discovered the group and then, you know, discovered the group and very excited about helping to move things forward. </p> <p> That's where I'm at. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=634.871">@10:34</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Fantastic. great to have you all. So let's move straight into our &ndash; has everybody gone? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=641.791">@10:41</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Me. Scott. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=643.031">@10:43</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Oh, sorry. I wasn't paying close attention to who went. Please. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=647.431">@10:47</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Scott Wolpow from Astoria, New York, home to probably the most fictitiously robbed bank on TV shows. He's about to use CRM in production in the next day or two. </p> <p> Where we have a database of over 10,000 food companies in the country and the brand. So we're going to find out all the brand managers. </p> <p> And then a second instance will be with another client. So for the CMO, work happily and had a big fight with the client last night about why CiviCM is just a pile of garbage. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=684.861">@11:24</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Thank you, Scott. So let's move straight into our track statuses and next steps. For those who haven't been on one of these calls, we kind of go through our tracks or areas that we're working on. </p> <p> If you are interested in leading one of these tracks, we would love to have you. So please don't be shy. </p> <p> We need more leaders as well as more doers. So starting with event management and event registration. Does anybody have updates they want to provide before I fill in the gaps? </p> <p> I suspect it as much. So first of all, the groups.drupal.org initiative. There's a community initiative to basically migrate groups.drupal.org to the new drupal.org website and improve it significantly along the way. </p> <p> I think as this relates to member platform, it really has to do with events, because drupal.org has the event listings already, right? </p> <p> Community events. And there's a desire to sort of improve events as it relates to groups, right? So if you've got an interest group or a local user group, and you want to have a group on drupal.org, you also want to be able to publish events there and have them be managed by other people in the group and things like that. </p> <p> My, that sounds familiar. And so if anybody is interested in participating in that initiative. Please either find the Slack channel or let me know and I'll, you know, connect you in there. </p> <p> But I think the main thing that I, way that I think we could be helpful there, because I don't think member platform itself is a good fit for Drupal.org, particularly, you know, on the timeline that we're talking about. </p> <p> But leveraging the event module and kind of making that the go-to place, you know, way to represent an event as an entity type, I think could be very powerful. </p> <p> It'd be great to get Drupal.org in on that. So that's where I see the kind of lowest hanging fruit. </p> <p> I think there's also potential as it relates to sending and composing emails and things like that, but maybe a little less obvious connection there. </p> <p> Anybody have thoughts on groups.drupal.org? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=838.051">@13:58</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Just that I was looking for notes. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=843.101">@14:03</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So I think we're mid-asynchronous Slack meeting in the groups-drupal-org initiative Slack channel, and there is a good summary linked to from there. </p> <p> <strong>ACTION ITEM: Message JD in Slack re: groups.drupal.org; JD connects to initiative -<a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=857.9999"> WATCH</a></strong> </p> <p> So if anybody wants to bring themselves up to speed on what that initiative is and get involved, it's a good time to do so. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=868.481">@14:28</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> what's the Slack on that? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=872.241">@14:32</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> You know what, if you go to the member platform Slack, there is a link to a post that I put there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=877.701">@14:37</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Oh, okay, gotcha. That's my cheap answer. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=882.041">@14:42</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Would it be fair to say that the initiative would hope or aspire for groups.drupal.org to be a suitable replacement for Meetup, given how much Meetup costs at this point? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=898.301">@14:58</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yes, I think the initiative is definitely. They're geared toward providing better tools for groups so that they don't need to rely on other tools so much. </p> <p> And that could include member platform as a tool that they would have less of a need to rely on as well, right? </p> <p> But they still wouldn't own their, on Drupal.org, right, a group I don't think would own their customer list, if you will, right, their member list. </p> <p> They would have access to Drupal.org usernames, but they wouldn't have contact information, you know, through Drupal.org. So for some groups, they would value, you know, being able to have that direct connection still, which is, you know, still a value proposition that member platform would have over the new GDL. </p> <p> And timeframe, I think this is supposed to be a six-month initiative, not a 12-month initiative is kind of what they're saying. </p> <p> Like they want to make some serious progress on this and get it deployed. Thank you. And they've got, you know, support from the Drupal Association engineering team and, you know, etc. </p> <p> So like it's going places. And we're kind of on the ground floor right now for getting anything in there that makes sense from an ecosystem perspective, which is why I'm keen to further explore whether the event module would be a useful base. </p> <p> Speaking of the event module, so Rich, who's been at a number of our meetings, is the maintainer of the event module. </p> <p> And we had some discussions around making that the sort of go to place as a how you represent an event in the Drupal community. </p> <p> And so we're looking at creating a three version three of that module that is a little a little more crafted to meet meet additional needs. </p> <p> out there. But CRM and member platform will have additional needs beyond that. And it's not the intention to push those requirements into the event module. </p> <p> Just like the CRM project is very focused and has a limited scope, right? So too, should the event module and the goal is to build an ecosystem of event related functionality around it. </p> <p> So there's lots of functionality out there around dates and related to various, you know, your choice of date modules. </p> <p> But there's not a lot of ecosystem around anything involving events, because most people create a content type, or maybe they use ECK and create an entity that way. </p> <p> But it's sort of a DIY affair for each site. And so I think the real opportunity is like, let's encourage ecosystem building, right? </p> <p> in the same way, in we're doing around CRM and member platform. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1076.4">@17:56</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, I'd say ecosystem building and kind of Of helping to establish a beaten path, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1083.67">@18:03</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yep. Stop people reinventing the wheel. Here's where you go. Here it is. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1091.94">@18:11</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> There's a module for that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1095.93">@18:15</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I think I've heard that before. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1097.15">@18:17</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Sure. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1100.51">@18:20</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And then for those who don't know, Rich is also working with John Altman, who's the maintainer of the entity registration module, on allowing entity registrations to have contacts as registrants, or really any entity as registrants, which will be important to our initiative. </p> <p> That's what I've got for events. Anybody have anything else they want to talk about about events? Okay. Let's move on to composing and sending emails to members. </p> <p> We had a call yesterday to talk about emails, including Zingenuity or Wayne Eaker, who's the maintainer of the easy email module. </p> <p> And that was a very helpful meeting for me to better understand really the scope of what easy email provides and what it doesn't. </p> <p> And I think, you know, one of the big challenges is separating what do we need long term from what do we need short term to get out, get something out the door for MVP. </p> <p> And so I think we still need to refine that. And so my hope is that after our agenda is over on this call, some folks will be able to stick around and help hash out requirements a little more definitively for that. </p> <p> And I think the learning about easy email that I want to provide to everybody here, just to align on like. </p> <p> What it does and what it doesn't do is easy email provides an entity that represents a single email, right? </p> <p> That is generally that has been sent, but it can be in a form that has not been sent yet. </p> <p> And it refers to those basically only in its email log report. So it's not like super designed to be used in other ways, but it very well could be. </p> <p> It also has an email template entity. I think that's what they call it. An email template is a fieldable entity where basically the sort of pattern that people should use there is they add fields to the email template. </p> <p> And then they use tokens to fill in things from these fields into like the recipient box, like the to or cc or bcc fields or the subject or wherever, right? </p> <p> The body of the email. And so it provides a structured way. like should looks For I'll if you're professional- a few </p> <p> To basically have a tokenized email that is based on fields you've added right to this bundle of the template or sorry, it's a bundle of the email. </p> <p> So it's like a type of email, email template. And that's pretty powerful. However, that's great for like a transactional email that just gets sent right away, you know, or gets sent in a queue and gets gets processed pretty quickly. </p> <p> Um, it doesn't support some things like I would want, I want to send an email to a list of people, right? </p> <p> So if I want to send the email to a set of contacts, set of members and have them each receive an individual email, right? </p> <p> It doesn't do that, but it certainly could be used and we can provide a different, you know, layer on top that does that. </p> <p> It also doesn't support things like sending a scheduled email because it just has no way to represent the thing before it gets turned into. </p> <p> The email that actually gets sent. So those are opportunities for providing additional functionality on top of easy email if we choose long-term to leverage easy email. </p> <p> And I think it could make sense. It does do a fair amount. It's already there. I don't think it does anything that's sort of incompatible with what we want to do. </p> <p> We just want to provide a different user interface and some additional functionality on top. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1342.68">@22:22</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So I've been doing a lot of research into that in the last couple of weeks. Anything from the cold mailings to what's considered a blasting, how you get yourself blacklisted and so forth. </p> <p> And so one of things we do have is symphony queuing, which allow you to queue the emails if you're doing a blast out, and that's important. </p> <p> And with a little bit of AI, we can reduce the probability that we'll be marked as a spammer because we can alter the message if we want to. </p> <p> But it's getting harder and harder for it send out any more than 100 emails at a given moment from a server. </p> <p> If you don't have people making relationships, the major ISPs to make sure you're not blacklisted. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1388.08">@23:08</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And personally, I don't think that we should be in the business of managing the sending of the emails, like email server wise, right? </p> <p> We should assume that that's provided, you know, upstream, there's either an email service provider like SendGrid or Mailgun or something like that, that is kind of handling that and we're hooking in to their functionality. </p> <p> Or if somebody wants to manage their own email server, they're welcome to do that, right? We're not going to be incompatible with that. </p> <p> But I do think we should basically document like, hey, like best practices, like you kind of need to do this over here. </p> <p> And here's a set of services you might choose from, you know, if you're going to DIY it, like best of luck to you. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1431.32">@23:51</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I just want to mention the Multics project. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1435.34">@23:55</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Multics? Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1437.52">@23:57</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> It's not like Unix, it's got like an A. And something else in there, or maybe it's not. I don't know. </p> <p> I don't know nothing. It used to be part of the Drupal Association, but at some point it got spun off as its own project. </p> <p> It uses Symfony as a bass. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1456.24">@24:16</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Is it Mautic? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1457.92">@24:17</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, that could be it. Yeah, Ruth, I believe, is the Mautic. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1462.98">@24:22</a> - <strong>Bob Snodgrass</strong> </p> <p> Mautic, right, yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1464.42">@24:24</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Okay. It's a spinoff from Acquia. Yeah. That's right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1468.14">@24:28</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> How's that spelled? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1470.01">@24:30</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> M-A-U-T-I-C. Like, kind of like automatic, or sort of a play on that, I guess. That's at least what I thought. </p> <p> I would look to that. Like marketing automation tools. Yeah, perfectly. You have the same problem, though, of like, in order to make sure that your email doesn't get marked as a spammer, you need to, like, have a lot of relationships with industry and utilities and management. </p> <p> Like, it's just, for most people who are using, like, an easy-to-use... This membership platform, they don't want to manage their own email server. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1503.66">@25:03</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> No, definitely not. And then just a word of warning, SendGrid has a lot of burned IPs, almost all burned. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1517.19">@25:17</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Basically, it's spelled out. Like, what we want is, like, more of an API that interfaces with multiple email services. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1525.52">@25:25</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Agreed. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1526.66">@25:26</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So how would we do that? Would we just use auth SMTP as the layer to do that? Or is we going to build that into our mailing system? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1536.3">@25:36</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So I'm actually going to suggest that we defer that discussion until we've gone through our whole agenda because &ndash; oh, wait. </p> <p> Well, I talked about the event module requirements that's being done after, but maybe we want to split the time between event and email because there's a lot to talk about there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1552.95">@25:52</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> What do all think? Yeah, I like that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1558.0">@25:58</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> And we'll see what else comes up at our agenda. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1560.0">@26:00</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> We've got other things we want to dive into, so I just don't want us to go too far down the rabbit hole. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1567.2">@26:07</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> It's definitely a program for discussion. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1570.79">@26:10</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yep. But does anybody have any, like, higher-level questions about email stuff? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1578.55">@26:18</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> There's things I want to say, but not now. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1580.59">@26:20</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Okay. Let's move on to member profile and directory. Adam? Oh, hey. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1589.07">@26:29</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, we had some interesting conversations in the threads of last week or so. So if there's anything left there, too, I haven't caught up with it. </p> <p> But excited to hear some new voices on the call. Sorry I couldn't join by video today. But certainly check out the threads and the conversations around directory and be happy to hear your thoughts. </p> <p> I don't have anything more than that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1613.47">@26:53</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Very good. Anybody else have anything on member profile, member directory? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1621.27">@27:01</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Is that what's currently out of the box in what's in CRM? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1628.2">@27:08</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I would say no. CRM is sort of the CRM interface, and the member profile, member directory is about having a member-facing, possibly public-facing view of members or whatever the right set of people are. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1645.92">@27:25</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Okay, I see. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1648.73">@27:28</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> I only have a tangential add-on to profiles and member directory. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1656.98">@27:36</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I have been thinking about hierarchical relationships, and I don't have a decision on whether they should be provided out of the box, but that seems like a recurring thing, right? </p> <p> Or a common use case. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1677.37">@27:57</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> That's Steve, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1680.0">@28:00</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Yes. Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1683.29">@28:03</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> For like the directories, because I noticed that there's relationships already in the system that is a pretty, pretty robust system already for like household relationships. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1697.69">@28:17</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I think it's more about a UI layer. Tell me if I'm wrong here, but more about presenting the data that already exists and maybe adding a hierarchical potential so that you can. </p> <p> And more easily track your boss's boss's boss if you need to, or I don't know if that's a great explanation. </p> <p> So I'm going to stop talking. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1726.13">@28:46</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> No, Steve, you're going the right direction with one of the, one of the use cases that was of high interest to some folks. </p> <p> So certainly the, the company internal organization kind of a thing is, is something that was discussed. And then even when you're talking about something like tying it back to what JD was talking about with groups and you have people that contribute on a project or are working on a module, those are member lists and potentially a small directory of 10, 15, 20 people that would be useful as well. </p> <p> So, mean, there's a lot of different use cases where this is something that would be, you know, high utility. </p> <p> Steve, I like the thinking around it being, you know, incorporated more closely, and that's certainly something I think worth discussion. </p> <p> Does that answer anybody's question? Does that shed more light on the concept or are we just getting question marks in the room? </p> <p> I can't see any of faces, so. I can't see faces. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1797.68">@29:57</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I think it probably helps. I would add, if you think of CRM as providing the data layer for how we track the information, plus a UI for people who are CRM users, right? </p> <p> Like they actually log in and do things in the CRM. And then this member profile, member directory stuff we're talking about is really to allow people who are not CRM users to see some information about members or contacts. </p> <p> You know, that's sort of... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1828.76">@30:28</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> That's good. Thank you. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1830.0">@30:30</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, the easy dividing line. Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1834.86">@30:34</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Gotcha. Thanks. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1836.56">@30:36</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Very good. All right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1837.68">@30:37</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Who's the other voice that's not or JD? I'm sorry. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1841.08">@30:41</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Sorry. Go ahead, Adam. What? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1843.32">@30:43</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. Who is the other voice that's not Steve or JD? The other... That was Andrew Morton. Hey, Andrew. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1850.59">@30:50</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Hey. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1853.08">@30:53</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> All Glad to have you on part of the conversation. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1855.14">@30:55</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Thanks, JD. Sorry. Yeah, no. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1856.78">@30:56</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> All good. So let's move on to CRM more generally. voice Why will you... Steve, any updates you want to provide there? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=1863.62">@31:03</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Right. We're focusing on migrations. If we're going to stick with this solar system analogy, which I guess I am sticking with, migrations are the asteroid belt. </p> <p> The projects aren't particularly big, but there's a lot of them. So many, in fact, that we created a meta project to have reusable services and base forms because the UI is basically the same, right? </p> <p> Match your properties from whatever source up to these destinations. So there's a handful of those. Being able to migrate from nodes would be an important one. </p> <p> I'm still working on migrating from CSV files, but I would imagine those are the two, both most generic and have the </p> <p> Most applicability to our early adopters. There are some others like OnePageCRM, which Fox Valley Drupal Meetup is looking to use to migrate off of that onto Drupal CRM. </p> <p> I've also been spending time in some of the dependency space. So clearing out bugs in the name field, deciding what's going to be in version 2.0. </p> <p> And just trying to get primary entity reference up to snuff so that we can, you know, get data imported incorrectly and exported. </p> <p> I do have something that I, you know, we don't necessarily need to discuss it, but something to, you know, noodle or ruminate over. </p> <p> I've been looking at schema.org and they have, I think they call them blueprints for how they suggest. You structure certain things, and so there's the JSON API, for example, since we're using an entity reference to address and telephone number, those just appear as a reference to another API call, right? </p> <p> That makes sense from a that's how JSON API works out of the box, but should we do something to make it more compliant with the different blueprints? </p> <p> We could also, same question about the REST module, right? We could create REST resources to structure it in a different way than how it's structured in the database, or maybe potentially that could be in a different project. </p> <p> The advantage to this just would be that we could take data that's in CRM and export it. In a way that's more universally consumed. </p> <p> So ideally, you could point maybe Power BI, some Microsoft tool, at some export. And if they already know how to ingest something like a person or an organization from schema.org, it could, in theory, work without changes or minor changes in depth. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2068.7">@34:28</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I was just going to say, I'd like to looking forward to more universal data compatibility there. That's good thinking. </p> <p> So the project we're working on next, and probably that could be as early as today or tomorrow, is taking a huge database of companies, and that'll be the main part of the entity, CRM. </p> <p> Then for each brand that comes out, that'll break it into separate contact. So dynamically adding another contact field, which will need to be filled. </p> <p> And I'm going to be downloading that from the foods information, whatever the website is, the database, a huge database. </p> <p> I get a JSON at CSV. And then later on, I'll be updating that with various contacts. And the way I'm doing is using DuckDB in between just to select what I want because the database is so huge. </p> <p> Is there anything that we have now that can make that life easier? Or when building, can I give that into you guys? </p> <p> And we can use that for other people. Because really, we need a way of mapping from whatever database we have into the CRM. </p> <p> And every time will be different. And, you know, I got a database from Constant Contact. It's pretty crappy because it doesn't have a lot of data on it. </p> <p> And if want more data, I have to use the API. So how are we going to do it? I don't know how I'm to build a universal translator. </p> <p> built one for CSVs, and I can dig that out. That was built on D7 or D8 years ago. But that actually mapped everything to MongoDB instead of Drupal database, but within Drupal. </p> <p> So is there anything that can help me or what I'm doing, can that help what we're doing? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2187.32">@36:27</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Well, I don't know the database schema, but it sounds like it's custom. Would that be fair? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2194.22">@36:34</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> No, the contact would be the company. Under the company would be brands, and under the brands, there'll be a contact person who's the brand manager. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2205.87">@36:45</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> But the database that that's currently stored in, though, is that a name brand system? Was that built by somebody in-house somewhere? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2215.15">@36:55</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Built by a nonprofit. It's an open-source database of... Food information. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2223.08">@37:03</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Can you send me a link to that and I can take a look at it? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2226.3">@37:06</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yes, sir. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2226.92">@37:06</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I can get you a better answer. I am trying to provide at least some base forms and reusable services. </p> <p> One of the, I don't want to call it problems, but one of the things that makes it slightly more tricky is that since things like telephone numbers and addresses are separate entities, you actually, instead of having one migration, you can end up with four migrations. </p> <p> So it helps manage that and provides you with a single UI. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2263.89">@37:43</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Explains why you were thinking about hierarchy. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2271.27">@37:51</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> What you can't see, Adam, is Steve nodding his head. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2275.97">@37:55</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Thank you. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2280.0">@38:00</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I'm the accessibility lair here. Any other questions for Steve about CRM? I saw one here in the notes. Is there a roadmap and timeframe for a stable release of CRM? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2295.61">@38:15</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> So not a stable release. I can talk about a release candidate because that would be next. There are two items in the backlog. </p> <p> One of them has to do with access granularity. Mike's taking a look at that a little bit. And sort of one of the things with that that I'm kind of hung up on is I think maybe it's trying to do too much in one issue. </p> <p> <strong>ACTION ITEM: Consult Nick Lassler re: CRM access granularity (policy vs grants) -<a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2325.9999"> WATCH</a></strong> </p> <p> And I also don't know where we should use access policy versus a grant system. And I've been tempted to reach out to Nick Lassler. </p> <p> to ask him questions, but I'm afraid he's going to give me a look, like say, grants are going to be removed from core in Drupal 12 or something like that. </p> <p> I'm not saying they are, I'm just, a number of things are getting moved out of core in Drupal 12. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2357.52">@39:17</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> I know exactly what you mean, I gotcha. Yeah, I'm on the same wavelength. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2362.0">@39:22</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Steve, I put the link in the chat. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2367.4">@39:27</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I think, Steve, we should definitely, like, find more expertise in that area, right? And, like, let's let them guide our direction rather than, you know, having to figure it out ourselves. </p> <p> I feel like Nick would be a good first port of call. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2384.38">@39:44</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Then there's also an item for, we've been saying fieldable subtypes. We don't really have an exact implementation, but since we're telling you not to create. </p> <p> We also want to recognize that there's definitely fields that only are going to apply to certain segments of your contacts. </p> <p> And so a way to maybe make the edit form more manageable or less cluttered or maybe putting training wheels on so people don't enter data that isn't, you know, relevant. </p> <p> Just, you know, in terms of like a release candidate, right, that's what we're talking about. That's basically it. We might remove some things. </p> <p> know JD has an issue out there about removing some of the relationships from the base product, but some of them will probably have to stay. </p> <p> Something like that would probably have to be made maybe before we make a release candidate if we're going to remove anything like that. </p> <p> Anything that would cause breaking changes, we would prefer to do sooner rather than later. But I think that window for breaking changes has basically gone away. </p> <p> In terms of a full release, I guess I'd want to see one of the other projects more closer to a functioning, you know, something. </p> <p> Not, not so concerned about which project, but just one of them in terms of, I don't know, proof that it, proof that you can build functioning stuff off of this, I guess, would be the metric. </p> <p> I don't, I don't know how to turn that into a requirements document, but. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2506.9">@41:46</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> You want to have an offline conversation about that, Steve? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2510.2">@41:50</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Okay. I mean, I'm, I'm open to it if you want to. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2513.8">@41:53</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> I don't, I don't, I just don't want to leave you twisting in the wind on it. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2519.1">@41:59</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Well, I don't know if we. I a formal thing. I'm just sort of, I'm more focused on what's next rather than two steps down the road, just one foot in front of the other. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2530.71">@42:10</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Although I guess these days with AI agents, I should be trying to do everything at once. Everything everywhere all at once, right? </p> <p> No, but I mean, to your thinking, you're already in this place where, you know, the need to be aware of introducing breaking changes is a part of what that kind of thinking forward is. </p> <p> It helps to inform. So, you know, I'm open to it if and when you get to that point. Just let me know. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2560.36">@42:40</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I'm shaking my head. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2563.8">@42:43</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> He's nodding his head. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2566.09">@42:46</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Yes. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2566.72">@42:46</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> is no, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2568.7">@42:48</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Thanks. Thank you. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2572.38">@42:52</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Sounds good. Anything else around CRM? Anybody wants to bring up? Then we'll move on to wireframes and mockups. Scott, have you made any progress leading the pack here? </p> <p> <strong>ACTION ITEM: Share Balsamiq wireframes in Slack; present next call -<a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2583.9999"> WATCH</a></strong> </p> <p> Scott, you are muted. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2594.49">@43:14</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> On my tutor list, finally catching up with all the bugs and little things that I take care of on a project. </p> <p> So I am devoting time this week to that. And if anyone wants to help, come join me. If not, I'll just do it myself and muck through it. </p> <p> But by next call, I'll have something to show. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2615.69">@43:35</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Very good. You're doing that in the balsamic? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2617.93">@43:37</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yes. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2619.34">@43:39</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Fantastic. Well, don't keep us in suspense. As you make some progress, definitely share it in the Slack channel so we can hop in and contribute. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2627.17">@43:47</a> - <strong>Erica Stevenson</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, no, I mean, would it be possible for you to sort of share the documents you're currently working on just at the current things just so it's easier to jump in? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2636.43">@43:56</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> We have only the balsamic documents that are up there already. we want. And if anybody does not have access to those balsamic documents, send me a message with your email address and I will share it out so you can edit. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2654.11">@44:14</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Very good. And then documentation. I guess the only thing probably to share on this front is that we've got some sort of very work in progress initial spec documents for event, for email stuff, for member profile. </p> <p> And directory that Adam has started up. And then we've got a bunch of very old, neglected sort of beginnings of an overall spec document that needs some love. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2691.91">@44:51</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> It's still useful. I mean, sorry, go ahead, JD. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2697.01">@44:57</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, no, no. I mean, it's useful, but we have... We things in multiple places now, and I think it behooves us to standardize a little more and kind of get everyone on the same page about where the documentation lives and what our decisions have been made versus our just thoughts. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2716.03">@45:16</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2719.64">@45:19</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So all input ideas welcome on how best to do that now or another time. Yeah, we can talk about that too, JD. </p> <p> <strong>ACTION ITEM: Schedule next-week sync w/ Adam re: documentation standardization -<a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2728.9999"> WATCH</a></strong> </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2729.23">@45:29</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> I've been thinking about that from an experiencing it standpoint, but let me know when you have time. Let's connect. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2738.77">@45:38</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Sounds good. Yeah. Next week, let's get some time on the calendar. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2742.92">@45:42</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Good, good. Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2746.85">@45:46</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So with that, our official agenda is over, but I know there was interest in talking about some email stuff, so why don't jump back to that, and after we've sort of exhausted what people want to talk about about email, we'll move on possibly after the call has officially ended. </p> <p> So, Scott, you were asking a question about email or something. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2771.34">@46:11</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And so, I was making a statement. I mean, so the email is, as we know, more complex. So, we just want to give them the ability, how are we going to make something that can easily attach to any other module that links into an ESP, email service provider? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2794.09">@46:34</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I would assume that unless we're going to be integrating with the batch capabilities that we're committing to it, of using, you you give them one email or one template and a bunch of tokens, basically, or data to swap out for who receives the email, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2820.19">@47:00</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> MailChimp has features. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2822.59">@47:02</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> But if we're not going to do something like that, if they're going to be single emails, I would expect to use the existing mail system in Drupal. </p> <p> It's a plugin-based architecture, so there can be different ways of sending email for different modules that use different mail plugins. </p> <p> I mean, that's just how I was assuming it would be built. I don't know if there are downsides. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2849.97">@47:29</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I agree. For transactional emails, it's simple. We either use the PHP INI system or we use SMT auth if we're using an external system. </p> <p> And when you use the template to make the newsletter or the email, then you can only send through an SMTP provider. </p> <p> However, MailChimp, Constant Contact, the rest, I have yet to find one, that'll allow you to send the newsletter through their system because they want... </p> <p> want you to use their tool to build a newsletter so you can't send the templates. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2887.47">@48:07</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Sorry, Scott, I've got some important call-outs about what you're in the areas that you're bringing up, but I want to make a distinction between the creation and perhaps archiving as an audit or other things that we might use in email, transactional or otherwise for. </p> <p> But there's a distinction between that build and store process and the sending process. So we've kind of hopped over that line a couple of times, and I just want to be cautious about that because you're calling out something important, but it's important to understand the distinction before we get deeper into that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2921.58">@48:41</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So if someone sends for an event and we send a reply, that's transactional. If you have 40 people going to an event, that's still transactional for the most part. </p> <p> No one really cares about that. If you have an event and 4,000 people are attending, that becomes a mass email, even though they're all opt-in. </p> <p> And even... You know, the transactional, the providers out there will look at that as a mass emailing, especially if they want. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2947.13">@49:07</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, and that's a fair point. I think there's now a third area there. So the part that you're calling out about how different providers, if you're using an external provider of some kind, deal with email through API, I think is segmented to the right modules that do that. </p> <p> And then the part about the logic is very well tied into the templating and storing of emails and how they're created. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2973.43">@49:33</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So you're talking about operational logic around, okay, there are rules here that this operator needs this for their API, that's a configuration item, or, you know, unlike that. </p> <p> Does that make sense? Yes. So I'm not saying we solve their problems. What I'm saying is wherever we build has to work within the rules so that they don't blame us or they blame the module for getting their IP burns. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=2999.33">@49:59</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. And I would say it differently. You're right. I would say it differently. would say that it's important for us to be aware of what options there are so we can provide for maximum flexibility for the use of the components that we're either endorsing or are part of our ecosystem, right? </p> <p> So I think that's a very fair call out, and it's a complex area, which is why I'm calling out the three different distinctions that we're working in right now, but we're working across right now. </p> <p> But, yeah, your point, as I would restate it, and tell me if I'm off base on this, is, you know, making sure that we have fields and configuration that support multiple providers for sending email. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3040.17">@50:40</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Is that correct? Correct. Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3043.18">@50:43</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3043.42">@50:43</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So this all fits into discussions that we had in our call yesterday about this topic. Yeah, sorry, I couldn't make that. </p> <p> No, that's totally fine. And let me walk through in a little more detail kind of what we discussed, and I think roughly the direction that I think we're landing on. </p> <p> And then we can poke some holes in it. So if you think about before you even compose an email, right? </p> <p> And I want to be clear that the things I'm talking about are not scoped to 1.0, right? They're scoped beyond that. </p> <p> And we have to figure out what fits in 1.0. But there's a need to be able to define segments, right? </p> <p> Or logic by which recipients are determined when an email gets sent, right? So that's kind of a core function. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3100.05">@51:40</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Functionally, two different things. Logic for sending an email could tie back to configuration, whereas segments tie very openly to marketing or subgroup subsets of a given list. </p> <p> Yes. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3117.27">@51:57</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Agreed. Although I think there may be... The cases where segments might be used for transactional email as well. Agreed. </p> <p> You know, I'm not sure exactly how it all fits together, right? So segments are just like a free... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3136.19">@52:16</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Sorry, I there's a colloquial or common understanding of, yeah, I was just going to say there's a colloquial or common understanding of what a transactional email is, and there's also a legal slash marketing definition of what a transactional email is, and I think that's an important distinction. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3150.21">@52:30</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Agreed, and that will be one of our challenges, and I think also one of our opportunities to provide some value there, right, for end users, whereas MailChimp is always sending marketing emails, right? </p> <p> Like, that's their assumption is everything you're sending is a marketing email, must have an unsubscribe link at the bottom, right? </p> <p> But there are cases when people use MailChimp when it's actually not a marketing email, but their hands are forced, right? </p> <p> hands are tied, but they kind of have to send this out as a marketing email and risk getting unsubscribed, even if it's, you know, legally legitimate. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3187.87">@53:07</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, and that's often enforced, sorry, painful experience here. That's also often enforced by SMTP providers. So it's something that's more and more enforced by generally, and I think there's a use case or a set of use cases here that we speak to that are, and in fact, it's, I'm talking, a lot of this because it's something I have direct current and ongoing experience with, and that, you know, groups where you're still a member of the group, you're just, you chose them, and the unsubscribed language I've been using that I would love if there's anybody has a better term, but instead of unsubscribe, it's muting. </p> <p> You are still a part of the group, but you're muting the thread. And so I put that conversation in the same bucket as digest discussions around emails. </p> <p> So, um, yep. Sorry to go off on a little tangent there, but I just wanted to... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3243.5">@54:03</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> No, that's helpful, and we haven't yet talked about some of those things. One thing we did talk about yesterday is the need to allow people to express their preferences for what kinds of emails they get sent. </p> <p> And so there's a whole bucket of functionality that kind of needs to be thought about there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3263.97">@54:23</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3265.41">@54:25</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And now we haven't even gotten to composing the email, right? All right, so now composing the email, right? Like long-term, ideally, I think it'd be great to have a pluggable architecture here where you could compose your email using a CK editor, or you could compose your email using Drupal Canvas, or Display Builder, or, you know, what was the other one that somebody brought up that's sitting in my browser tab somewhere? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3292.09">@54:52</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Email. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3293.37">@54:53</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> What was that, Scott? Easy email we mentioned. Yeah, easy email, which basically is sort of CK editor and... Some additional fields. </p> <p> But anyway, there's a third party like JavaScript library or something that could be used as well. And so like that's one piece, right? </p> <p> Then there's the campaign management aspect of it, right? Like I have an email that I want to send to a segment of people at a certain time in the future. </p> <p> And I want to be able to look back and get reporting about the activity related to, you know, that email being sent out and things like that. </p> <p> There's also activity on the contacts, right? That get it sent to. That's happy. Steve? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3342.31">@55:42</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I don't want to take us down a huge tangent hole, but being able to send something at a particular time is something that open social does not provide intentionally because </p> <p> The way a web server works, right, you can't really do orchestration in the same way, and they can't guarantee delivery in a reasonable amount of time. </p> <p> So, like, if you wanted to send a reminder to people 15 minutes before the event starts, well, if it takes 45 minutes to send all your emails, that's not really helpful to the people at the end, right? </p> <p> Very interesting. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3388.76">@56:28</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, and I think there are probably some email service providers that can help with that, right, where you can queue up those emails, right, and rely on their send time and, you know, abilities, but how that translates back to the functionality that we're creating is complicated by that. </p> <p> So, okay, now we have... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3417.07">@56:57</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Do we have an idea about smart groups, if you want to? groups, groups, want want groups, you Sure. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3422.71">@57:02</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So smart groups being Civi CRM's feature for a segment. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3430.05">@57:10</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> I'm having video issues or internet problems, so I killed the video. So, right, we have entity query, right, as a thing. </p> <p> I imagine we could probably build some sort of UI on top of entity query and then save that information in some sort of other entity, for lack of, right? </p> <p> I don't know if that's the best way to describe it, but people are going to be creating them, so they have to be content entities, they can't be config entities. </p> <p> And maybe, like, that could be a separate project, and perhaps we bolt on some extra sprinkles where you could specify whether you want to use, like, their primary email address, or if they have, say, a work address, use that. </p> <p> In place of the primary, I'm just, you know, making up examples where it could be custom. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3487.89">@58:07</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Sure. Yeah, it'd be interesting to explore more of the architecture to support that smart group or segment logic. All right. </p> <p> So now we've got this concept of we've got like a campaign, right? And tracking that right now. Clearly, that's more related to sort of marketing emails. </p> <p> We also probably have a concept of like email templates, right? Things that can be reused and that are relevant to both transactional emails and as a starting point, you know, for an individual marketing campaign. </p> <p> And then, all right, now you've got either an individual email or, you know, marketing campaign to send out. It gets, you know, scheduled or sent immediately. </p> <p> And now we get down into the weeds. of the different email service providers and using, you know, mail system and they get it sent out. </p> <p> Now the emails get sent out by the whatever email service provider is being used. And then some things happen, right? </p> <p> There may be open and click tracking that that email service provider, you know, has a functionality around. They may receive bounce information about emails that did not make it to the recipients. </p> <p> And, you know, we need to react to that, right? And do some logical things related to that stuff. And so I think that basically covers, oh, the one other topic that came up yesterday, which, you know, I think we kind of all agreed was further future is inbound email processing, right? </p> <p> So the ability to say, send an email to a contact in CRM and then have them reply and have that show up in your CRM. </p> <p> ability email to So So the say, send So send As being another interesting piece. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3603.69">@1:00:03</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Yes. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3606.1">@1:00:06</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I agree with that too also. And then SMS too, including that same area of concept. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3616.21">@1:00:16</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Sure. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3618.01">@1:00:18</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Oh, wow. SMS would be huge. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3620.09">@1:00:20</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3622.45">@1:00:22</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So just a few things to think about. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3627.86">@1:00:27</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Not an entire, you know, billion dollar industries or anything, but. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3635.19">@1:00:35</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Anybody have anything specific they want to talk about, about emails before we officially conclude our call and move on to a working session on events? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3647.15">@1:00:47</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> The only thing I would want to mention on emails is that when we're, it would be ideal or great if somehow the entity that represents. </p> <p> Presents emails, or maybe my criticism of how easy email does it, or it's handling the inbound emails would be like a different bundle type, I guess, if we were to use easy email, which I guess isn't like the end of the world in terms of a proof of concept, but maybe there's a better way that that could be, I don't have an ideal solution. </p> <p> The concept of kind of like, you know, if you're like, there's a conversation back and forth. Yes. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3700.27">@1:01:40</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> I mean, I know one of these cases. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3703.57">@1:01:43</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Go ahead. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3705.24">@1:01:45</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> No, no, I think I see the shadows of your boxing app, Steve. And I, I, I'm with you. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3709.88">@1:01:49</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I like where you're going. The only other thing we need to add to email is a, you know, one by one pixel. </p> <p> So we can tell if the email was opened or not, because you need that in the CRM. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3724.72">@1:02:04</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> The Drupal Visitors Project can handle that. It, in fact, already does. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3731.34">@1:02:11</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Already does. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3732.14">@1:02:12</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, there's lots of ways to handle that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3733.58">@1:02:13</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3734.78">@1:02:14</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And that's an interesting discussion because that's also the kind of thing that the various email service providers likely can provide in a way where we don't have to sort of do a lot of that. </p> <p> And there are advantages and disadvantages to those approaches, one of which I'm kind of concerned about with Drupal doing it, is now you've got a bunch of pixels, pixel images being served by Drupal, and you've got, let's say, tens of thousands of people opening their emails. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3765.22">@1:02:45</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> You know, that might not be great for us. Scalability, J.D., what I would say is an essential first-class citizen in the consideration of what we're doing is the technical implementation. </p> <p> And so I think that a very real conversation that we haven't had is around email and what if it is one of those self-hosted stacks or something that's more in-house and some of the actual benefits we can get from that as well. </p> <p> But the point about, you know, a pixel embed or other forms of click or link tracking, which there are others, as most of you guys know, but the privacy implications of that, I think, are something that needs to be considered from day one. </p> <p> And I think we're, you know, maybe a day half, a half of one. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3824.25">@1:03:44</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And there's a big debate on that. If you send emails out to our members and you track what they do, is that privacy issues are not because you're using it for your own purposes and not selling to others? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3837.99">@1:03:57</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> So there's, yeah, this is a, this is. This is not a rabbit hole. This is a sinkhole that goes to a particular novel. </p> <p> But I have a lot to say on this topic, and I'll keep it to my very high level so that we're all aware. </p> <p> And I'll pull it from the global aspect. And I'm going to get into some very specific things here, so forgive me for the side quest. </p> <p> But so how Europe implements what I call a floor in privacy with GDPR and their legislation is very distinctly different from what's happening today with legislation in our country, in the United States. </p> <p> Most of the &ndash; I can't see, but I assume most of us are in the U.S. At least the Canadians. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3891.01">@1:04:51</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, same &ndash; I mean, the same battle is taking place. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3894.53">@1:04:54</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> It's global. But, you know, in the U.S. and legislation, the &ndash; The &ndash; The &ndash; The &ndash; States have been allowed to advance privacy and legislation on that side, and some have been leaders in that way, but there's an actual, this is what's happening with PACs and money. </p> <p> Big tech has an interest around slowing that down and putting a ceiling as opposed to a floor on the legislation, and that affects our privacy as consumers or as just folks using tech tools. </p> <p> The long and short thing is that open source as an industry, as a place where development takes place, this is something that is core to us, in my opinion, because we want, for different reasons, different aspects and to different degrees, we want control over the data and where it is going. </p> <p> And if, if what I would say in that case is, if an organization can own and control from point. </p> <p> A to point B for communication, they're going to want to, many of them are going to want to do that in a way that's safe, secure, and not, you know, all the various things around privacy. </p> <p> So, anyhow, that's my little spiel. Sorry to go off on that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=3977.59">@1:06:17</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> No, there's a lot to be thought through there. My kind of gut reaction is different organizations are going to have different needs, in part based on where they are in the world and the legislative side of things, right, policy side of things, as well as their own decisions, you know, from an ethical or moral perspective about what they do or do not track. </p> <p> I don't think that we should be overly opinionated about what can or can't be done with the system. It's open source. </p> <p> We can't really control that, right? What we can control are privacy aware and sensible defaults. And ensuring our architecture supports different use cases, so that, you know, what we're building serves as many organizations as possible, while also starting them from a place of privacy consideration and prompting them to think through those issues. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4041.53">@1:07:21</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Good. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4043.89">@1:07:23</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> All right, should we move on to event requirements? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4050.14">@1:07:30</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Sure. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4051.6">@1:07:31</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Anyone's willing to stick around here? Let me find a document for that. So what I propose that we focus on is a spec document for the event module, and I'll put the link in the Zoom chat here. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4075.91">@1:07:55</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> I'm going to have to say my goodbye, so I don't know who's left in the room, but... Thanks, everybody. </p> <p> And I'll hang out for a few seconds here just to see if there's anything for me before I go. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4086.44">@1:08:06</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Thanks for being here, Adam. Appreciate it. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4088.99">@1:08:08</a> - <strong>19146238433</strong> </p> <p> Of course. Happy to help. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4092.84">@1:08:12</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> All right. Let's see. I see two in the document, three in the document. Let's see. One, two, three. That is everyone I would expect. </p> <p> Almost everyone. I'm in the document right now. Very good. All right. So let me just read what we have. </p> <p> There's not a lot here, right? And we can work on this. So background. Many projects represent events, but they typically create their own content type or other representation of an event. </p> <p> There are multiple competing projects for representing a date or date range or recurring dates, and we should leverage whatever the best options are. </p> <p> Drupal would benefit from an event entity type and an associated ecosystem to provide capabilities related to events that the Drupal community can rally around. </p> <p> Rich is a maintainer. The member platform initiative needs a way to represent events. The groups.drupal.org initiative might also have use for such a project. </p> <p> The scope of this document is defining the requirements for the base event module to generally meet the needs of various projects and initiatives. </p> <p> It is not intended to define the more specific requirements of possible adopters, like member platform or CRM-specific requirements. How does everyone feel about the scope so far? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4178.82">@1:09:38</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Sounds good to me. sounds like the same basic citation, real basic needs for all events, and they'll let people build add-ons like we're doing with CRM. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4190.15">@1:09:50</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> That's the idea, yep. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4191.87">@1:09:51</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Let's not have everything in the world piled into there. This just gets to be a mess. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4197.54">@1:09:57</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yep. So. Requirements, an event entity type, content entity type that is fieldable, revisionable, and translatable. And I note the most complex requirements are around dates, so we need to tackle that challenge first. </p> <p> Although, I want to read through the document, so we'll come back to that. Additional base field definitions. So this is basically copied and pasted from the document that Erica, you and I, worked on a while ago around event requirements, and maybe some other people contributed there as well. </p> <p> And my expectation is that the list of, you know, base properties here, so actually what these are, needs to be reduced so that it is relevant not just to our needs, but, you know, more generally. </p> <p> And so, I think our two... I think the two things that we most need to figure out are what is the set of sensible base field properties that this module should provide? </p> <p> And how do we deal with the complexities of dates and especially recurring events? So I wonder if we start maybe a little simpler. </p> <p> I know I said we tackled dates first, but what if we start with the additional base properties and just... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4296.56">@1:11:36</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> These are add-ons to the basic event itself. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4299.92">@1:11:39</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Well, no, what we're going to define in this document are things that the event entity type provides. And so the things here need to be reduced to that effect. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4315.78">@1:11:55</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So to me, all events have a title? A date and a location. That's universal to all events. Everything else is only added on to it. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4330.99">@1:12:10</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And I should say, I think it's fair for us to include some optional things, right? We don't have to make them required. </p> <p> But in my mind, the point of having things here, as opposed to elsewhere in the event ecosystem, is that they're well-known fields, basically, that the ecosystem can rely on existing, whether they're populated or not, so they can build more interesting things. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4360.63">@1:12:40</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So you want to have an event configuration page, like, these are the things I need, and boom, that event content type is created, and then you can populate your event information. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4374.82">@1:12:54</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Well, that's interesting. You're making me think about things I haven't thought about yet, which is perfect. So the event... </p> <p> Entity type will have some of these, we'll have these, whatever properties we define here, right, in the database, like they'll exist. </p> <p> And it'll be, there'll be fieldable bundles where you can add specific additional fields that you need for your use case on specific bundles of the event entity type. </p> <p> And what you were mentioning is basically like being able to configure which of these fields actually shows up, right, of these base properties shows up when you, you go to create an event, right? </p> <p> So you have some flexibility for like opting out of some of this data basically. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4419.33">@1:13:39</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Right. So for instance, I decided because I can't stand the Squarespace and the 10 year old WordPress site for my ER crew and my kayak group. </p> <p> So we have events at two locations, Animal Basin, Howitz Cove for rowing and kayaking. There's no sign up. It's just an event's going happen this week, you know, Saturday, May 1st, and Sunday, May 2nd, and there'll be different hours. </p> <p> Now, added to that, that's for the general public, but then we want for people who are volunteers to click on a volunteer link, log in, and see what time they want to volunteer, if they're a volunteer already. </p> <p> That's information. We probably don't need banners, we don't need states, because either it's May 1st or it's not May 1st. </p> <p> If it's before May 1st, it's there. After May 1st, it disappears and goes into the record. And, of course, we need to display a view, and you can choose between list view or calendar view. </p> <p> We use list view because we only have on the weekends. We don't need empty space, but that's a slightly separate issue. </p> <p> However, we're also having a fundraiser coming up this month, and that means, you know, registration, pay a fee, and... </p> <p> And we may have other events where, you know, what food are you bringing? We're having like a potluck barbecue at end of the year. </p> <p> So all the things you need to put into there. But I always find, it's like the arguments happened with a client yesterday. </p> <p> He wants to use CIVI CRM. It's tons of crap you don't need. And people tend to, if it's there, try to find a way to use it because it's there. </p> <p> So I think you might just go and say, here's what I need. Boom. And a form gets generated. And the mundanes can easily go in and type in their events. </p> <p> And there's no learning curve. It's intuitive. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4541.42">@1:15:41</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, that makes sense. So let me take what you're saying and propose something a little more concrete and see what you all think. </p> <p> So ignoring what the specific items here are, right? There will be some... Come with the event module. When you go to create an event type, right, the form for that can prompt you, basically, for which of these things do you want to expose on the event form for that type? </p> <p> Right. Or do you want to set the value and hide it, right? Or do you want to just, like, not use it? </p> <p> And we've got to kind of talk it through for each one. But, like, high level, right, it gives you the control when you're setting up a type of event, right, which of these sort of features, I guess you could say, are active for that event type. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4597.58">@1:16:37</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Exactly. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4605.34">@1:16:45</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4605.74">@1:16:45</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> When I build sites, my rule is I try and make sure that the customer... It never goes in the back end of Drupal, that they can do almost everything from the front that they need to do, and to not let them, I don't want them to think. </p> <p> It's a bad thing when they think. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4627.22">@1:17:07</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, and so I think when we're talking about this module, right, we are building something for, let's say, ambitious site builders, right, and they then configure it to meet the needs of those end users. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4642.58">@1:17:22</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4644.57">@1:17:24</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So, go ahead, Scott. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4647.3">@1:17:27</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And that ties into, when someone registers, that ties into CRM, either adds them to the CRM, or if they're in the CRM, you have a listing of all the events they went to. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4659.56">@1:17:39</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Sure. So we can ignore CRM for the moment, because the scope of this discussion is just this sort of base module for representing an event generally, right, and flexibly, and then we'll add on those CRM stuff later elsewhere. </p> <p> So, can where... So, Okay, so we're probably all agreed an event has a title. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4679.6">@1:17:59</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Correct. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4681.82">@1:18:01</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Can we think of an example, like I'm just trying to poke holes in this, where an event would not have a title? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4691.72">@1:18:11</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> An unannounced one that just kind of happens, like a hallway conversation. I'm just spitballing here. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4700.05">@1:18:20</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, no, I'm trying to think that one through. I'm like, is that an event? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4706.63">@1:18:26</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Maybe like if something happens and you sort of retroactively want to document it? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4710.67">@1:18:30</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I think that might be activity. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4714.36">@1:18:34</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4718.1">@1:18:38</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> It might raise to the level of an event that you want to document happened in the past, but I think the concept of like a hallway conversation is more like I'm documenting an interaction I had with somebody. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4728.34">@1:18:48</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, totally. Like if this was a CRM and you like talk to a client, you're going to want to log that. </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4734.84">@1:18:54</a> - <strong>Erica Stevenson</strong> </p> <p> I mean, can we think of anything where having a title would be a bad thing that, yeah, kind of that even if you just put NA, which I'm aware is kind of a little bit sort of weird, but the exceptions feel like they'd be really, really rare if they exist. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4752.35">@1:19:12</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> No, actually, I understand that because you can say, we're meeting every week, we know what it is, and we don't need the same title four times on a list. </p> <p> So we can title it, but we have a little checkbox, don't display. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4768.37">@1:19:28</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, but that might be if you have a recurring event, it would get the parent's events title automatically. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4773.41">@1:19:33</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And I guess when we're talking about this ambitious site builder that's setting this up, right, they could use something like autoentity label to set the title based on some logic and hide the title field, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4786.9">@1:19:46</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, that's a common pattern for me. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4789.83">@1:19:49</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Okay, so I think we keep title around. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4794.34">@1:19:54</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And a checkbox, don't display, and that takes care of that problem. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4799.68">@1:19:59</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Well, I mean, that's something that, like, auto entity label would be a good way to handle. I don't know that we necessarily need to expose that for the title field, because I feel like we're going to assume that that title exists. </p> <p> Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4812.29">@1:20:12</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> The ecosystem is going to generally assume that there is a title. When I say don't display, mean, to the public, not in the back end. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4820.06">@1:20:20</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Hmm. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4822.65">@1:20:22</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> We have two things. We can title something internally so we know what we're talking about. metadata about that event. </p> <p> But we may not want to expose that to the people coming to the website. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4835.78">@1:20:35</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> That's a good point. And we haven't yet discussed how event entities here are viewed. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4844.2">@1:20:44</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Well, and I think that's different as well, because if you're looking at a listing of events in the back end, what do you want to look at is the question. </p> <p> How you display it and whether or not you display the title. is a Drupal site building question. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4858.76">@1:20:58</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Right, but do we want to make it so, part of what Drupal is doing is to make sure that the mundane user who comes in doesn't have to figure out how to make a view. </p> <p> I would say instead of replacing views with a new custom solution, just create the view and export it as config. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4881.0">@1:21:21</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Right, but I think we might be getting a little caught up with different audiences here, right? Like our audience for these requirements is the ambitious site builder, right? </p> <p> They need to be empowered through what we provide or what is otherwise available in the Drupal ecosystem to meet the needs of their end users, right? </p> <p> So we don't need to solve for all of the end user needs here, right? We can rely on the site builder to sort of fill in the gaps. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4914.34">@1:21:54</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> When I say the title not exposed, that really should be in the form that's created to create events rather than in the persons who are creating the event logic. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4927.79">@1:22:07</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Say that one more time. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4929.11">@1:22:09</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So I'm a site builder. build a site for a customer. Okay. When I say, okay, they tell me what the events are, and I build three different event types, and they have that in their event content types. </p> <p> I have, you know, the general meeting, the paid events, and the free-for-all events. And then the person who runs the site, the customer logs and says, I need to type A site. </p> <p> They click that, and when they take the title in, they can check a box at that point to say, don't display that if they want, or don't display this information. </p> <p> We only want that for internal reasons. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4965.28">@1:22:45</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Can you go back and articulate the use case here where somebody does not want to display the event title? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4971.26">@1:22:51</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Because it might be repetitive over and over again. Or maybe not recurring, for whatever reason, they don't display it. </p> <p> It gives them an option. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4979.22">@1:22:59</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> It's like the website is JD's, you know, cooking demonstrations, and literally everything is a cooking demonstration. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4985.96">@1:23:05</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Right. And the title doesn't give you any additional information. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4989.44">@1:23:09</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> You don't want the title to be shown up. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4991.5">@1:23:11</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Right. I'm the devil's advocate of what... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=4995.26">@1:23:15</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> If you're on the Drupal site, you could, like, configure the block title, or the title block to not display on that content type or entity type. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5003.62">@1:23:23</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> In the view mode, yeah. Right, but that's once you build it. But once you hand it over to the customer, and you're not interacting, you want them to do that without... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5013.02">@1:23:33</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> There are an infinite number of things like that that we could implement. And I'm not sure if this is a good time to discuss the bells and whistles. </p> <p> Because there's plenty of viable workarounds if you don't want to display any title that a developer would readily be able to implement. </p> <p> And you're right, it doesn't expose that capability to a normal... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5034.34">@1:23:54</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I just don't think that there's a demand for it. Okay. I agree. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5039.14">@1:23:59</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And I think the reality is, like, we need something that people can click on in a list of events, you know, a back-end administrative interface to get to that event, right? </p> <p> And so, like, the title is the obvious way to do that. Any other way feels sort of less useful. </p> <p> And we can basically say, yeah, there's got to be a title. You don't have to display it. That's up to you if you want to display it somewhere, right? </p> <p> But, like, there's got to be a title so at least you can navigate to an event through the back-end. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5067.34">@1:24:27</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5068.82">@1:24:28</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> And I think, realistically, if you had a series, you'd have a series named, like, you know, Ender's Event 1, Ender's Event 2, or maybe Ender's Event and then the date. </p> <p> It's probably what the title will be, and you could do that with auto-entity label. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5083.42">@1:24:43</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Or even just event ID 3, or, like, if you need it, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5088.7">@1:24:48</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Fine. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5090.93">@1:24:50</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Okay, so let's move on to description. We also have this sort of concept of summary. Now, this came out of, you know, member platform requirements brainstorming, and I want to pose the question, do these two things belong here, right, as something that is typically common for events? </p> <p> And obviously, we provide some capabilities for which gets exposed, you know, to users. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5125.7">@1:25:25</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So again, Description feels pretty cut and dry to me. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5128.6">@1:25:28</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> The summary is more, I think, where my question mark is. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5133.09">@1:25:33</a> - <strong>Erica Stevenson</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, that if, I mean, it might make description not required, but having it as a field definitely makes sense. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5139.85">@1:25:39</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> Summary, I don't think you really need. What about that long tax plus summary field? That's getting removed, I think, from court. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5151.28">@1:25:51</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> That sounds right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5152.88">@1:25:52</a> - <strong>steven.ayers</strong> </p> <p> It's like, and then it's going to get... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5154.34">@1:25:54</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Removed from the standard site template, so it's sort of discouraged, but I think there is a convention of adding an extra field back in if you want it. </p> <p> I do think there is a use case. I don't know if we need to support it out of the box. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5169.32">@1:26:09</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So here's my pitch, my elevator pitch for including summary here. In the context of supporting an ecosystem that will do things like display events, right, list events, show them on a calendar, show them here or there, right, I think having a known place where a short description lives as opposed to the sort of full description is valuable. </p> <p> And for sites that don't have that need, right, they can simply hide the summary field, right, from the form and from the display. </p> <p> But I think it's worth having this one as a very common use case that the ecosystem can... And then rely on the, you know, presence of it. </p> <p> agree. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5217.76">@1:26:57</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> It's really short description, long description. Short description is what you have on the list of events. Long description is when you click on it and you read more about it. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5227.74">@1:27:07</a> - <strong>Erica Stevenson</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, no, kind of as a general field for extensibility, that makes sense to me. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5234.53">@1:27:14</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Should we call it full description and short description? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5238.15">@1:27:18</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yes. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5239.77">@1:27:19</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Or a better term. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5240.97">@1:27:20</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Summary. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5242.03">@1:27:22</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Like summary? I was thinking, like, the only challenge is, you know, if it's not filled out, like, the logic of filling it in, and, like, displaying stuff in views and trimming HTML characters has been, like, a whole rabbit hole. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5262.53">@1:27:42</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I agree. I agree. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5266.34">@1:27:46</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> But if people just fill it in, there's no problem. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5271.66">@1:27:51</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And that brings what I said earlier, are we going to include Do you a basic view with a module, or are they going to have to create a view for it? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5280.57">@1:28:00</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> There should at least be an admin view. I could imagine, well, I think, I'm imagining that there will be sort of a site template for this, and maybe it'll be the same as Ripple CMS, where there's like a blank one that's like kind of the standard setup, and then like a pre-configured demo. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5302.08">@1:28:22</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> That I would agree with. It's one thing that Droomla did right, when they did things right once upon a time, is that they had built-in displays for everything. </p> <p> And you can go modify it afterwards, but it gives someone who's not a big site builder the chance to build something, include it without them to figure out everything else. </p> <p> I mean, I know that we want to keep our jobs by keeping it complicated, but I think Claude's killing that for us. </p> <p> But, um, I think a basic display would be... Basically, template for it is a good thing to include. Then let them go modify the template for what they want. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5342.71">@1:29:02</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And I think, Andrew, you were talking about something a little different. You were talking about a site template, but that's a site template that provides event registration and other things, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5353.39">@1:29:13</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, because I'm kind of imagining if we're targeting to building something like Drupal Groups, that if you were a separate community and wanted that functionality, you'd be able to spin that up with an install site template. </p> <p> And there could be variations on that of, like, maybe something. And that one is very Meetup-y, but maybe something a little more of a twist, like Partyful or something. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5381.17">@1:29:41</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5382.43">@1:29:42</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Or I don't know if that one really has, like, membership or groups across events, or if it's really just an event instance. </p> <p> Maybe more like Eventbrite. I don't know, I'm just thinking, like, of this platform where... What those starting points would look like. </p> <p> And I totally agree with Scott. Like, there should be a starting point that's like a viable out-of-the-box experience. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5403.67">@1:30:03</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yes, I would say I don't think that's for the event module to worry about, though, right? Yeah, definitely not at the moment. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5410.3">@1:30:10</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> We haven't built it yet. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5416.26">@1:30:16</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Okay, so we keep description in summary, but we do need to figure out, well, actually, don't know that we necessarily need to figure this out, right? </p> <p> We know we need to provide the site builder with the option to, you know, show and hide these fields, right? </p> <p> We're probably not shipping anything with the event. I would guess we're not shipping anything with the event module that actually uses the summary or description, right? </p> <p> Apart from, like, this is where you edit it. Or maybe this is the, you know, this is the entity page. </p> <p> That outputs it, but that's like the one place it gets output. Let's say if we had like an event calendar. </p> <p> I think that belongs in the ecosystem around event, but not in the event module. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5464.43">@1:31:04</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5467.4">@1:31:07</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Right? Like I think our scope should be about representing what an event is and facilitating the editing of those. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5476.0">@1:31:16</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, but isn't displaying the event part of the ecosystem? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5484.62">@1:31:24</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Letting you kind of guide us in like the architecture that you have in mind and kind of thinking within that structure. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5492.56">@1:31:32</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I mean, some of the events have it built in and have a calendar functionality, and most of it I hate because it's just, you know, it's gone. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5503.95">@1:31:43</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> so like the ecosystem should provide a way to show events on a calendar, but the event module doesn't need to do that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5511.76">@1:31:51</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So then we have to make sure. Or it can link into whatever calendar modules that exist. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5519.04">@1:31:59</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> No, it would be on calendar modules to support this entity, right? We're using Drupal's entity system. When we talk about dates and what date field we use, that's probably what dictates which contract modules support these events as events to show on a calendar. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5539.36">@1:32:19</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> agree with you because then we're not inventing yet the same calendar everyone else has. How do we get the calendar people to support us? </p> <p> I would use one of the support and date fields. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5550.34">@1:32:30</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, it's really just around choosing an appropriate date field. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5553.88">@1:32:33</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5555.9">@1:32:35</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> But we'll have lots of concerns around how we choose the date field, and that's the bigger discussion. Okay. Thanks, Erica. </p> <p> So format. Here's my question. Assume for a minute that format is required, but it could be required, it could be hidden from an event entity form, right? </p> <p> And basically the value could be chosen per entity type by the site builder, right? So if the site builder doesn't want to expose format to the end user, they don't have to. </p> <p> But under this assumption, right, would it be fair to say that an event would be one of online, in-person, hybrid, when I added FYI in there, it's like another sort of format for an event where it's not online or in-person, it's just like, hey, this is something you should know about, that kind of has a time associated with it. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5619.79">@1:33:39</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, I mean, I would say format has to be one to three, online, in-person, or hybrid. I don't know what else you would have, FYI, but, you know, it has to be one to three, you know. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5634.35">@1:33:54</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> What if I want to track somebody's birthday on my calendar, not their birthday party? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5641.5">@1:34:01</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Right, but that's not a format, that's a tracker. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5645.77">@1:34:05</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Or then it's like a null value. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5651.62">@1:34:11</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, is there a set of values where we could say, this is required, it's always going to be there, so the ecosystem can rely on it, for example, if somebody creates some module that's only relevant to events that are online? </p> <p> Or hybrid, right? Then they can reference this format and say, well, we're only going to apply to event types that have this set. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5678.91">@1:34:38</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I'm not sure what this FYI would mean, like over an empty value. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5685.96">@1:34:45</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Well, that's fair. I guess the danger with an empty value, or supporting an empty value, is then people... Don't fill it in or configure it for the entity type for events that actually do have a value. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5700.19">@1:35:00</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Defaulting to none or something, or like however normal select lists work. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5705.21">@1:35:05</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, I see what you're saying. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5707.71">@1:35:07</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Just because the three are very clear, but FYI becomes like, I don't know if it's a terminology thing. I understand the concept of what you're saying, but I don't know how to express it. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5717.75">@1:35:17</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Of course, the online and personal hybrid is conditional to show the other information on, you know. Right. And you name, link to whatever online you have, and hybrid shows both. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5734.85">@1:35:34</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> But what I think I'm hearing is that format can't be required, even at the, you know, the selection of it at the entity type level, because there has to be this option for none or other. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5750.66">@1:35:50</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> How can you ever know format? How else do we have an event? Unless you announce an event that doesn't really take place, you just tell them, let's say, July 4th is Independence Day. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5762.54">@1:36:02</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> That's the kind of thing. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5763.9">@1:36:03</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> That's an example, yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5765.38">@1:36:05</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So then you use an NA, have a value of NA, not applicable. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5772.61">@1:36:12</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I wonder if there is some formal term for this, because it's like a holiday. Is there a general term for a calendar event that's not a... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5783.31">@1:36:23</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> That's what it's called, a calendar event. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5787.25">@1:36:27</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Well, yeah, but format, online, in-person, hybrid, or event, it's just something that doesn't fit right there. I'll ask FathGPT. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5795.71">@1:36:35</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Good idea. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5797.93">@1:36:37</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Because part of what I'm thinking about is like, hey, if we can say with confidence, right, one of these values has to be chosen. </p> <p> That becomes more useful to the ecosystem than giving people the sort of easy cop-out, I'm just not going to fill it out. </p> <p> Because they may lose functionality if they don't fill it out. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5817.8">@1:36:57</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And just speaking of events, this is more the exception than the rule. So in New York City, we have City of Water Day coming up in July. </p> <p> And it's one day with about 80 events around the city all on the same day. So obviously, that would be a calendar view. </p> <p> horrible. It would have to be a list view. And it does not before or after. It only happens on that day. </p> <p> And each has its own registration. I guess that's more of how it displays than anything else. I mean, we can all put it on there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5852.38">@1:37:32</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. And those are just in-person events that you show up at. Well, thinking about format more, maybe it's enough to basically, on the entity type form, you know, strongly encourage that the... </p> <p> The Site Builder either expose that field and make it required for the end user or select the value appropriate for the entity type. </p> <p> Okay. So we don't strictly require that there be a value for format, but we encourage its use to benefit the ecosystem. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5901.79">@1:38:21</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I would add an A to it, though. I'm still making that required, but add an A, not applicable. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5909.27">@1:38:29</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> The only word it's giving me is observe. So if it's like a holiday that you're observing or something. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5917.13">@1:38:37</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Might be a little too specific. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5919.11">@1:38:39</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, that's fair. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5920.75">@1:38:40</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> But it's like, I mean, it's the same thing for a holiday for just a birthday, right? Like my calendar has a whole, there's a whole calendar I have that's dedicated to like people's birthdays, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5933.33">@1:38:53</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> But if you're thinking... And let's say you have a place, you know, a community center that has events every day, and then they're closed on a holiday, that would be NA, and we could put an asterisk, this is if you're closed, it's just a general announcement. </p> <p> That sounds like office hours, like the office hours module. Yeah, but that could be, but if everything's going to an event, how are you going to put the office hours modules, cram that into the calendar with everything else? </p> <p> It might be easy just to have a general announcement, might be a better way than an A. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5973.77">@1:39:33</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Wait, maybe your birthday party is the event, but your birthday is just not an event. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5979.71">@1:39:39</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=5982.46">@1:39:42</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> The only reason I bring it up is because, like, operating systems calendars usually come out of the box with a birthday's calendar, right? </p> <p> And the calendar is, effectively, events. Right. And let's say you have a place, you know, a community center that has events every day, and then they're closed on a holiday, that would be NA, and we could put an asterisk, this is if you're closed, it's just a general announcement. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6012.59">@1:40:12</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> That sounds like office hours, like the office hours module. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6017.71">@1:40:17</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, but that could be, but if everything's going to an event, how are you going to put the office hours modules, cram that into the calendar with everything else? </p> <p> It might be easy just to have a general announcement, might be a better way than an A. Wait, maybe your birthday party is the event, but your birthday is just not an event. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6039.71">@1:40:39</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6042.46">@1:40:42</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> The only reason I bring it up is because, like, operating systems calendars usually come out of the box with a birthday's calendar, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6050.48">@1:40:50</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And the calendar is, effectively, events. Right. So it's just like a common thing that aren't exactly events, but people treat as events. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6061.9">@1:41:01</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So then why don't we just put other and let them put a box, fill in a box. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6066.52">@1:41:06</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Well, and there's also a lot less overhead for those kinds of things, because it's not like people are registering. </p> <p> Right. It's like kind of like, maybe there would be like a page for, I don't know, sharing what you're doing this upcoming Easter. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6081.91">@1:41:21</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So actually taking that other concept, right, would it be better to say, hey, this field is truly required for an event to exist in the system, and you're welcome to choose other, either at the entity type level or at the entity level if the site builder says pass it through. </p> <p> I'm doing that because no values break things, and then you can't filter on that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6111.55">@1:41:51</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> If you don't put a value in, then you do the filter. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6114.35">@1:41:54</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> It could break on that one issue, unless you put something into ignore null values. Andrew, what are your thoughts? </p> <p> I'm kind of thinking about the other aspects of what this triggers. And so if it's like you select online, I'd expect other integrations, like Zoom or something. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6140.14">@1:42:20</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, or in person, definitely need fields for address or some kind of reference there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6145.61">@1:42:25</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> But then if you select other, it just sort of hides that. Yeah. I think that's the idea, right? Like if the field's not relevant to online or in person or hybrid, then why would you choose other, right? </p> <p> Because other could just say, you know, it's Drupal's birthday, you know, or something else. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6170.0">@1:42:50</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I'd rather have none than other. Okay. Okay. Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6176.52">@1:42:56</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I'm fine with a choice that they have to fill in, and we can just put an asterisk and explain what none is. </p> <p> And actually none is better, because it's in an old format, put an asterisk and explain to them what none means. </p> <p> It's a meeting that's, you know, an event that's not going to have people attending, it's just a marketer calendar. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6200.17">@1:43:20</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6205.1">@1:43:25</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> It's not about whether people attend it, though, right? Like you could, you could, you could publicize events that people don't attend that are still online or in person, right? </p> <p> Right. What do you, wait, what did you explain that one? What's a good example? Like, let's say the event is class registration opens. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6232.93">@1:43:52</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Right. So, So, guys. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6234.35">@1:43:54</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I mean, you might still choose online because you might have a link to provide that's like, well, here's where you go to. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6242.87">@1:44:02</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I mean, it's kind of attending the event to, like, go register for your classes. But you might not choose none because you do expect to provide some information. </p> <p> these three terms talk about people getting together and where they're getting together and how they're together. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6263.01">@1:44:23</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6264.31">@1:44:24</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And none is where people are not getting together and you don't want to have them put office hours in for three events to happen in the calendar. </p> <p> But you want something in the calendar to designate. This is not people getting together. It's a statement of fact. </p> <p> You know, today class virtually opens today. We're closed today. It's, you know, it's, you know, Labor Day or, you know, City of Water Day. </p> <p> Yeah. So if you select none, there could still be a date and time. There could still be a leap to it. </p> <p> Right. Is the format more like how are people meeting? Like, are you saying that's what it should be described as? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6307.41">@1:45:07</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, because if I'm creating an event in Google Calendar and I'm filling that in, I'm thinking about the place that we are meeting or the Zoom call that we're meeting on. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6320.53">@1:45:20</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Well, you could have an online in-person or hybrid event and not provide a location. Right. Or, you know, or, or, or, that could be, you know, location to be disclosed later. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6338.94">@1:45:38</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> But yes, in my Google Calendar, I might put a note to myself. Don't forget to, you know, I, like, I put a note for myself. </p> <p> I'm going to, um, an event on Friday, dig up an HDMI cable because they usually. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6353.82">@1:45:53</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I'm saying that. So I'm making notes myself, but I'm saying that would not be in this case. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6360.11">@1:46:00</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> just saying that's the thing I use in Google Calendar. Yeah, feel, I'm feeling pretty settled on this. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6366.7">@1:46:06</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Like, I don't think we need to do format for like, for these like birthday or this kind of like time event start. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6376.53">@1:46:16</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Because you just don't need to link to an online meeting and you don't need to have an address. All right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6382.81">@1:46:22</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> So then how will people, if they're using this for all their events, how will they post a note on the calendar? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6391.19">@1:46:31</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Unless you can say they're not going go and put in office hours or separate functionality to do that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6396.63">@1:46:36</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Well, office hours could be a date or it could be a normal event. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6400.87">@1:46:40</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And then a note could be one of these things where it's like a, it's an event, but it's a non-formatted event or non-group. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6409.91">@1:46:49</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Like, I'm just thinking format is like the group format. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6413.09">@1:46:53</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> So how do we, so. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6415.35">@1:46:55</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So then none is the best way of doing a non-formatted event. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6420.73">@1:47:00</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> But then is format the right label? For today, I think it's fine until we find a better definition. I mean, you can do it. </p> <p> How it happens would be more descriptive to a person, a mundane. What about just NA instead of none? NA is fine by me also. </p> <p> None is making a statement that this event does not have a format. Not applicable is like this question you're asking me doesn't apply. </p> <p> Well, that's why I was thinking if it's like meeting format, then none would make sense. But so does any. </p> <p> format, that could make sense. That's a good definition. But then meeting doesn't necessarily make sense if it's like a conference format. </p> <p> Event format? Yeah, kind of. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6473.62">@1:47:53</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I mean... Bye. Bye. We're in the context of events, so format already implies event format. True. I think the point about meeting being a little problematic. </p> <p> Yeah, but you know what? Explain to people, explain it again, explain it again. When I used to write manuals for my dad's company, for the phone company I used equipment, it was originally on seventh grade level. </p> <p> That's because anything in seventh grade level everyone understands, they've actually dropped to a fifth grade level, explain things nice and simple, assume people know nothing. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6507.52">@1:48:27</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> And they don't make mistakes. This trend continues. Well, yeah, that's, it means, you know, not that I eat McDonald's that much anymore, when I go in, like I said, I want a quarter pounder, just a bun, just a burger, no pickles, no onions, no cheese, nothing else. </p> <p> I want 100% plain. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6530.57">@1:48:50</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And they get it right about 80% of the time. So, all right, if we're truly having a format called none, it really is like there's no value for this format. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6548.83">@1:49:08</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> But I guess the difference between having to select none and whatever the option is that's like I'm not selecting something is like you're making a statement that there is no format or it doesn't apply as opposed to it just hasn't been selected. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6565.67">@1:49:25</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> You know what I mean? So do that and make it required and they can go back and edit it later on. </p> <p> But you'll get people who say, we're just stating something, know, grand opening, season starts, you know, winter begins, summer begins, and they don't know which one to do. </p> <p> So it gives them a choice when they have, gives them a choice when they don't know yet. Maybe they don't know. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6591.84">@1:49:51</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Well, actually, that's a good point if they don't know. So, like, they might say they're planning an event and they don't yet know if it's going to be online or in person. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6602.11">@1:50:02</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> So none gives them a choice when they, you know, gives them a choice. Well, it's almost different. It's, like, not determined. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6609.19">@1:50:09</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> It's, like, that's different than none, right? So I'm adding a new event in Google Calendar, and it says, add Google Meet video conferencing or add location. </p> <p> Like, it's not having me select the format. And that's one thing that pisses me off. Every time people use Google Calendar, it sends me a link to Google Meet, even though in the email they send, we're using Zoom. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6634.05">@1:50:34</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, it's poor default Google Calendar. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6638.31">@1:50:38</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So I think having a non-choice or TBD to be determined is a good thing to add. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6648.97">@1:50:48</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> It somewhat saddens me to include yet another option. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6654.35">@1:50:54</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> But I agree, I think. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6657.41">@1:50:57</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> We're not billing for us, we're billing for other people. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6662.01">@1:51:02</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Wait, I don't know. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6663.83">@1:51:03</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> TBD is like an incomplete event. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6665.99">@1:51:05</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Like, you're not going to go live with it. Like, no one's coming to it. Sure you will. Sure you will. </p> <p> There are people who, all the time, they publish, like, events that are, like, tentatively planned, and they don't have all the full details, right? </p> <p> It's communicating the intent for there to be an event, but not that it is a confirmed event. Right, but I don't think you should use TBD if it's your birthday. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6691.57">@1:51:31</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Agreed, you would use none. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6692.63">@1:51:32</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> an event, at the end of May, we know it's going be online. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6695.65">@1:51:35</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> We don't know the links yet. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6696.97">@1:51:36</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> We don't have any of that yet. Yeah, for a birthday, you use There's a link down a couple days ahead of time. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6704.35">@1:51:44</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> For an upcoming... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6705.73">@1:51:45</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> No, can't hear you, JD. You can't hear me? Oh, I can hear you. We can't hear you. Can you hear me? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6712.73">@1:51:52</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Even though you're not muted. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6715.01">@1:51:55</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Can you hear me? I was hearing you fine. Scott? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6720.93">@1:52:00</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Did you mic off? Scott, do you hear me? Andrew is speaking. Can you hear us, Scott? Can you hear us now, Scott? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6749.73">@1:52:29</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I can hear you. That's weird. Yep. It was you, not us. That's weird, man. Okay, but back to this format. </p> <p> So a birthday would be none. A birthday party is likely in person. But there's a possibility that you haven't decided if you're going to have it in person or online because you're sick or something. </p> <p> Right. Right. Well, a lot of things could be TBD. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6776.59">@1:52:56</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> The description, the date. Agreed. And I think for date, well, date's an interesting one. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6792.7">@1:53:12</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I guess communicating, the difference is we're kind of starting from the premise that format is required, right? It's like you got to choose something, and none is different, like is wrong if the real answer is TBD, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6807.46">@1:53:27</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> I'll give you an example that we put as an event for the kayak group is Manhattanhenge. And Manhattanhenge is when the sun lines up between the crosstown streets perfectly, which sometime in the future, aliens will think it's a religious thing. </p> <p> But, you know, normally we have no event. We're not going to do something. It just tells people when it is so they know go to the water. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6835.59">@1:53:55</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> But to Andrew's point, we probably have to talk through some of the other fields to see whether this TBD breaks down and becomes a problem with other fields, right? </p> <p> Well, I think maybe each thing kind of neat is a little bit more complex than a single field. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6858.46">@1:54:18</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Because there's, like, I set this date, but it's tentative versus no date has been set yet. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6868.22">@1:54:28</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And then, you know, the other thing, and of course, trying to avoid what typically happens, is adding more and more features and adding more complications. </p> <p> Even having an event, do people want to vote on when the event will be or select when they can meet? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6884.22">@1:54:44</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. That's some events, but that's not a community event. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6888.72">@1:54:48</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Are we building this for a community event, an organization event, or... The company's events. All the events. Okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6899.27">@1:54:59</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> What I heard, Andrew, is like, there's like a date status kind of, right? Where it's like not yet determined or tentative or confirmed. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6917.09">@1:55:17</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6917.91">@1:55:17</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> But then that kind of gets into general, like, content moderation workflows of, like, is this content ready to publish or not? </p> <p> But I know you were saying earlier of, like, you often do publish without all the details filled in. That's normal. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6936.36">@1:55:36</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Would we have a similar status for other things? I mean, we're effectively doing that for format. That's what I'm thinking is that a lot of things will sort of have that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6949.33">@1:55:49</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> If we look at the other things we have, we're basically left with location. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6954.35">@1:55:54</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Right? And then some, like, metadata sort of stuff. Yeah, because, like, location could be tentative. Someone is, like, has a loose agreement, and then maybe they fall through and something else switches up on the last day. </p> <p> But these are all, like, we want a system that can support these edge cases, but this doesn't need to happen immediately. </p> <p> Right. And I agree, you know, you might have an outdoor event in a little sort of range that goes indoors. </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6983.07">@1:56:23</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> And, like, all the things you said earlier about, like, the community, like, voting on the event or, like, event time or finding a time, totally different UI, but those are really cool ideas. </p> <p> Right. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=6994.25">@1:56:34</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And that would be supported by a module in the ecosystem where the date status is not yet determined, right? </p> <p> And maybe it adds a date status or something that's, like, voting open or something like that or, you whatever it is. </p> <p> Yeah. So, like, I feel like it's useful to have some of... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7014.35">@1:56:54</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> of these stakes in the ground for like, hey, here's, here's where that information will live, even if we don't know what all the values could be, because they might be provided by the ecosystem, like even format, like should, there's value in defining exactly the possible set of options and having the ecosystem know, right? </p> <p> There's different value, right, in saying the ecosystem can add to these set of values. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7043.98">@1:57:23</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Right, yeah, because there could be other like, deeper conditions that get triggered by some type selection there. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7053.31">@1:57:33</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Or I don't think we would want a Zoom event module to say that the format is Zoom instead of online, because it is online, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7064.79">@1:57:44</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> We would want that information to be probably tracked by location or something, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7074.98">@1:57:54</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> It's kind of hard to come up with the use cases for, like, what anything in the ecosystem could do. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7081.26">@1:58:01</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of thinking in a more advanced system, if you had all these options available, you might want to kind of streamline it by creating some, like, if you knew that you only hosted Zoom events, you could have a Zoom type that sort of extends from online type, and then the data entry is just a narrow streamline for Zoom. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7102.6">@1:58:22</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Agreed. 100%. Great example. And then with Zoom, you may have, in some cases, put a username and password, or does that just get emailed to the people right before the event starts, if you want something secure, and you don't want idiots on your call. </p> <p> Yeah, there's a ton of logistics around kind of, like, actually getting people into the call. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7128.57">@1:58:48</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Or do we want to keep this as simple as possible and have people add things they want later on, and a developer wants to add their call? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7134.35">@1:58:54</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> They're little sub-modules, or do we want to make recipes that people can pull in so we keep the basic module itself nice and slim, and they can add to it so there's not as much as updating they need to do all the time. </p> <p> I think this should be as API or framework-oriented as possible, but it doesn't limit anything from extending it. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7158.43">@1:59:18</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I generally agree, although I'm tempted to say for format, like, this is what you get, and we'll take feature requests, and if in the future there's, like, clear use cases for providing ecosystem flexibility to, like, set a different format, like, let's have that discussion, but I feel like there's enough value in the ecosystem knowing that these values are there and are not sort of disturbed, you know what I mean? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7187.37">@1:59:47</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, I'm with you. I'm kind of, I'd rather, like, move fast and have to, like, break things later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. </p> <p> Now, date status, I'm wondering if that, like, I don't know what format that should take. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7202.01">@2:00:02</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Like, should those be, should these be config entities or something? And, like, you can adjust what these values are? </p> <p> Or is this another example of something where we can well define what this is? Like, hypothetically, if you were just using taxonomy, you could create tags like date TBD or, like, location TBD or, like, any kind of thing like that. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7224.42">@2:00:24</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Or you could make it more, like, kind of bundled with the field itself so you have more, like, UI control or something. </p> <p> With, like, a separate UI of, like, something less generic than just attaching tags, but more of, like, hey, you made this selection, now this field opens up for that, I think. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7244.56">@2:00:44</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. Well, quick brainstorm. What else do we have to say? What else could there be for date status? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7256.11">@2:00:56</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I don't know, but I like it the way I said it before. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7265.91">@2:01:05</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I think we should keep it as simple as possible and then add recipes for people to add to it so we don't overly complicate something in the beginning where we never get done with the features. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7278.35">@2:01:18</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, I agree. I think we probably won't really get clarity until we start building out applications. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7287.0">@2:01:27</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Question. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7288.32">@2:01:28</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> If an event is canceled, does that belong on date status? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7295.49">@2:01:35</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yes. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7296.91">@2:01:36</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Or does it belong somewhere else? I kind of feel like the date status of confirmed doesn't make sense if your event is canceled and so maybe it lives here. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7306.55">@2:01:46</a> - <strong>Scott Wolpow</strong> </p> <p> Well, no, but it should be on the date, on the calendar, it should be the date, it should still show up with a big, like, you know, cancel on it. </p> <p> Right, right. So, I mean, either way could work, I guess, but does, does this just cancel belong here or as its own something? </p> <p> I think it's, it's above like date status because if, even if it's like TBD, it doesn't have a date. </p> <p> What if it's postponed? So like, it's got a date, but it's not happening on that date. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7339.85">@2:02:19</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Is the date TBD or is it? It could be both. could be postponed, TBD. Or is it the old date plus postponed? </p> <p> Like, how does it, how does it fit together, you know? To me. Just the date or is it the whole event? </p> <p> I guess it's a question of intent. Like, will this event be updated with a new date or will a new event be created? </p> <p> And do you want to list on the old date that it's postponed if it's in the future? So if you move something up by a couple of days, do you want people? </p> <p> We said, I'm supposed to be somewhere on April 10th, and I go, and no, it's not there. I don't know to look for two weeks later to see if it's in May, but I've to hop off and have another call. </p> <p> I think it's wildly complicated for recurring events. Yes. All right, guys, have a good day, good weekend. Scott. All right. </p> <p> Good talking to Tricky. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7404.35">@2:03:24</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I'm put a question mark here about cancel. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7407.97">@2:03:27</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Well, it's actually already covered down here under state, which we still need to talk about, if and where that belongs. </p> <p> We're going talk about location. Okay. So I don't know that these are the right things at all. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7433.55">@2:03:53</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> This was just based. Based on brainstorming with Erica for member platform, but obviously based on online, in-person, or hybrid, you would have a location which would be either virtual or physical. </p> <p> There was discussion around being able to reuse a location, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7458.65">@2:04:18</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Like you've got a bunch of events at the same location, you don't want to type the event, the location information in every time, which is a little more complicated. </p> <p> For a virtual location, so details to join, should there be a separate URL field, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7487.36">@2:04:47</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Like you've got a Zoom meeting, you've got a Zoom URL, you just stick that in? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7490.74">@2:04:50</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Well, but then that's like, is everything just... Or is it like far more complicated, where sometimes it's a public URL, sometimes it's a URL, but you have to like log in. </p> <p> Sometimes there's like, it's private and then emailed out just before. So depending on the service provider of like what call you're using, there might be like deeper extensions to like customize it. </p> <p> So I mean, we simplify it by just saying there's a details to join field, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7528.44">@2:05:28</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> But put the information there. And if a zoom module wants to provide a zoom join field or something, right? </p> <p> It could do so. Yeah. Physical location. So yeah, this concept of a reusable location, I don't think that, I don't know that that belongs in the event module, but how does the event module, maybe it does, I don't know, like how does the event module manage this concept of locations? </p> <p> Yeah, I think it's hard to separate unless it's going to be other, like, wouldn't you have location in CRM, but not this kind of location. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7596.45">@2:06:36</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> CRM doesn't have a concept of location, they have a concept of organization. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7601.39">@2:06:41</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Oh, okay. Which will have an, you know, may or may not have an address. What if that organization ever threw an event? </p> <p> Like, you could still have that event, or the location. Event location is a separate entity than the organization and the address could be different with different access instructions. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7622.88">@2:07:02</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Well, you would also have an issue of like access control for like, does the person viewing the event have access to view the address on the organization entity? </p> <p> Like it probably is overly complicated. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7637.3">@2:07:17</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. No, I think it's okay to have this location with the events, especially if the virtual location is sort of, that's very event oriented. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7649.63">@2:07:29</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Then are we looking at another entity type for location, right? Like there's an entity type for location. There's a type of location that is virtual. </p> <p> There's a type that's physical. Yeah, but that does seem like it has a lot of overlap with the format. </p> <p> Like the way that Google's doing it is like... If you add a link to the call, then it's online. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7680.2">@2:08:00</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> And if you have an address, then it's in person. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7682.06">@2:08:02</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> If you have both, then it's hybrid. That's true. But I guess how do you determine the format if you don't yet have an address or online details? </p> <p> You're right. It can't do that. You'd have to put in the title or something. Okay. But that's fine. So just the format selection will expose what maybe virtual and physical, I don't know if those are going to be the same thing or? </p> <p> It's probably, okay, let's say you've got a location entity type. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7716.56">@2:08:36</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> You've got an entity type of virtual that on the entity type form, you configure it to only be shown. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7735.05">@2:08:55</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> For formats, online or hybrid. Right. Right, like that's where that conditional sort of logic lives, and the physical location is for in-person or hybrid. </p> <p> I don't know what other kinds of locations you might have. I guess that's the first question, is that can we think of a use case for a third type of location? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7765.17">@2:09:25</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Astral projection. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7767.72">@2:09:27</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> What was that? Some astral projection. Like in the sky? Yeah, like within our minds, but... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7778.38">@2:09:38</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Never mind. Whoa. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7781.0">@2:09:41</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I guess, okay. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7794.35">@2:09:54</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> If the format is TBD, and I think I know where I'm going with this, it's going to be nowhere, you might want to provide some information about possible locations that are being considered or something, but you probably should just do that in the description, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7817.57">@2:10:17</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> As opposed to us turning into a pretzel to create a location type for TBD. Yeah, yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7829.07">@2:10:29</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I mean, I guess the value of the entity types would still be that it's fieldable, so you can add different fields for virtual and physical to meet your needs. </p> <p> Right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7839.09">@2:10:39</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. And then a location, we've got to think about access control for locations, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7851.93">@2:10:51</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Like, a location... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7855.27">@2:10:55</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Might be conceptually owned by an event, or it might not be. Maybe even access instructions to the location. Like, I have a rooftop, and sometimes if I have an event, no. </p> <p> Yeah, I think that's like the venue information is sort of the intent for that. Hmm, okay. That might need to be relabeled. </p> <p> Nah, that does make sense, though. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7889.81">@2:11:29</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, because I would only want that information to be exposed to people who are confirmed attendees. Well, that's another interesting piece. </p> <p> We're not dealing with event registration here. That needs to be handled above us. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7911.25">@2:11:51</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So maybe private is something on... I mean, if we're thinking very simply, right, the physical location would be here. </p> <p> And if you need that field to have different access than other fields, like there are a variety of ways that could be accomplished, right? </p> <p> Should we, because we don't have a concept as the event module about whether somebody is an attendee or not, or should be able to view the physical location or not? </p> <p> Well, that might be a consideration. And then also, even for groups, the group site, like, I mean, currently, all the content is public, but I can imagine a group where they might want private events, even though the listing of the events to be private within the group members. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7973.17">@2:12:53</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> So that comes... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7974.35">@2:12:54</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So that has to do with group integration, which I think the event module might very well have, right? And let's let the group module handle that stuff. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7984.78">@2:13:04</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> That sounds right, yeah. </p> <p> <strong>ACTION ITEM: Update Event module spec: add Group integration, location access, reusable vs one-time locations -<a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7991.695922"> WATCH</a></strong> </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=7986.78">@2:13:06</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> That's for public or private events. That doesn't address your question about like the location access. Yeah. But do we even have group integration listed here? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8003.36">@2:13:23</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> No. Add that here. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8009.97">@2:13:29</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Okay, so there are locations. There would be permissions for users to be able to manage all locations. Typically, Drupal has a pattern of like, you know, being able to edit your own locations. </p> <p> Mm-hmm. I've actually never been a fan of, like, you've got one person who owns some content, because then what? </p> <p> Yeah, well, group kind of fixes a lot of that, I think. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8047.36">@2:14:07</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Right, yeah, yeah. But I guess locations, you're right, locations could be group content, and within a group, group organizers could edit locations. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8062.63">@2:14:22</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> But realistically, I think public info covers, like, 80% of the use cases. Agreed. And I think the remainder of the use cases is going to be very specific to your needs, right? </p> <p> group may very well cover it. And group is very flexible. So, are we saying, then, that the event module should not... </p> <p> Provide more granular access control as it relates to locations. I mean, the location could have its own access requirements. </p> <p> And then as you reference it, we were kind of more concerned with like the content entry. So let's say, let's say that, let's say we've got the group module integration and that a group has organizers and to use the meetup.com terminology, it also has event organizers, which are, or let's say, no, let's not use the meetup terminology. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8142.91">@2:15:42</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Let's say you've got organizers, which kind of administer the group, and you've got members. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8150.53">@2:15:50</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And let's say that members are allowed to create events in this group. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8156.87">@2:15:56</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> If an organizer creates an event, it stands to reason that they would also be able to manage the locations that are available to choose from, right? </p> <p> Or create a new one. If a member creates an event, you probably don't want members being able to manage existing locations because it might mess up other events that they don't actually have access to edit, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8183.09">@2:16:23</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Let's say a member can't edit an event that they haven't created. I can imagine them adding one, though. Or, like, in that case, add or edit your own because if I'm, like, in a group and I want to host at my place, then I could, like, add my own location. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8197.69">@2:16:37</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> But you're right. There is, like, set, like, clubhouse or something. I don't want to let anyone edit that address. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8209.69">@2:16:49</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So, do we need some concept? Of whether a location is a shared location? Shared as in, like, well, you shared across events, definitely, but more of, like, open for others to host at, sort of. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8236.72">@2:17:16</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Let me throw another one out here. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8238.16">@2:17:18</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> What about a location that you know is going to be a one-time location? You don't want it in your list of locations to choose from going forward. </p> <p> Like, don't clutter my list of locations with this one-time location. Well, I mean, those are always things that you could customize by, like, adding another Boolean on and then using the entity reference views for your selection. </p> <p> Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I guess I struggle with whether we should try to tackle that here or not. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8283.91">@2:18:03</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I need to be a little honest there. I'm kind of running out of gas. Yep, sure. Understood. Me too. </p> <p> Well, to be determined. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8298.11">@2:18:18</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Let me add a note here just about how do we handle reusable locations versus one-time locations and access control for location crud. </p> <p> Very good. Well, Andrew, thank you for sticking around so long. was great having somebody to work this through with, and there's more to be done. </p> <p> Yeah, happy to be a part of it. Yeah, really fascinated this whole, I think there should be many things like this in Drupal, where any kind of viable use case that could be a standalone platform or application, there should be a team behind it getting it done. </p> <p> Yeah, I'm kind of curious about, from your side, what you're seeing as far as the development pace. I was pretty impressed with what I saw on Drupal CRM, but I'm kind of curious, are people digging in and breaking ground and building stuff out? </p> <p> I think the pace is slow, from my perspective, and I think there are a number of reasons for that. </p> <p> One of which is the requirements are still being defined, right? And attention is split. I'm trying to do that different tracks. </p> <p> We don't... </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8394.35">@2:19:54</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> We don't yet have sort of strong independent leaders leading each track and, you know, being able to take some ownership and really like move them forward and have something, have a proposal, right, to be reviewed, which I think people are much better about responding to than we need to create the requirements, you know, from the ground up. </p> <p> But with CRM, right, like we're seeing a lot of value being created there. And that's very much primarily Steve's, you know, contributions, although it's very good to have a lot of community input, which we're having there to help make sure that we're making the best decisions. </p> <p> So I'm very happy about that. I'm happy we chose to, you know, select and contribute to CRM. But yeah, I'm, you know, floundering. </p> <p> A little bit as far as how to make people feel empowered to move forward and also have them have the time that they dedicate to doing so. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8463.68">@2:21:03</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So, you know, it just kind of is what it is, but, you know, it's moving along. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8467.85">@2:21:07</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, makes sense. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8470.5">@2:21:10</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Cool. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8471.08">@2:21:11</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, like I've been playing around with OpenCode a little bit, just trying to get a handle on that agentic programming. </p> <p> I'm at the point where, you know, when I first dive in, I'm like, oh, I'm just going to start vibing and coding away. </p> <p> And it really wasn't like that. It's like, OK, I have to stop and think about what I want. Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8492.19">@2:21:32</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> And I I don't know. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8497.13">@2:21:37</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> This is a very hard problem because like to plan everything out that we have it that's not in front of us, like the the individual sites that we want to build aren't clarified. </p> <p> And so we're trying to spec out a base for things that we haven't done yet. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8514.35">@2:21:54</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> I'm, my approach is a lot more cowboyish of just like plow into something and find out. Yeah. like, I would. </p> <p> What do you want to plow into? Well, unfortunately, it currently isn't really in the same direction. Okay. I got a project that, it's a member platform and they kind of do like internal certifications and evaluations. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8540.56">@2:22:20</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> there's like a member voting. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8542.66">@2:22:22</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yep. So what we have, I still need to figure out like what the actual requirements for the project are around those things to start evaluating like what our options are, but. </p> <p> Is it, is it, is it all kind of users who log in based or you have members who wouldn't log in? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8566.33">@2:22:46</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I think the members would log in. But would you have members who like are not that computer savvy? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8585.27">@2:23:05</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Are users an appropriate representation for these members or not, right? In which case, CRM is your obvious choice. I see what you're saying. </p> <p> I honestly don't know. I only saw a rough draft. And or, right? Like, do you want more structure and having a way to represent relationships between users and have everything be fieldable and have some default fields and, you know, benefit from the ecosystem as opposed to without CRM, right? </p> <p> Like, you've got a bunch of things that you need to go do specific to your project. Yeah, was hoping there'd be a lot of overlap and even things like emails of like... </p> <p> Like multiple email addresses and... Yeah, and there might be, like, member events, like an event to get certified for something. </p> <p> Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, I mean. locations would go into, like, member directories and profiles. Yeah, I mean, that all sounds sort of in line with what we're talking about, and I think one of the things we've been missing is, like, hey, here's a paid concrete project that, like, can directly invest in, like, moving us forward and, like, making progress, right? </p> <p> Because, like, let's say you get more concrete requirements, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8666.93">@2:24:26</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> Like, I'm sure people would be happy to discuss those and identify the best path forward that also contributes to the ecosystem, you know, and hopefully also means, like, you don't have to do it all, right? </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8682.2">@2:24:42</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8684.63">@2:24:44</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> I hope to get an update on that today. I was hoping for it this week, but... Sounds exciting. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8692.65">@2:24:52</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> Yeah, I've got a... for ... New client that I took on, which is a membership, has a membership that they sell, basically. </p> <p> And I don't know that, you know, member platform necessarily makes sense for them. They're kind of grounded in their existing systems. </p> <p> You know, they've got a different CRM and, you know, a bunch of integrations with other tools. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8719.07">@2:25:19</a> - <strong>Andrew Morton</strong> </p> <p> But at least it's exposure to another organization with their use cases. </p> <p> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/BkMDroUx7VZxy7-9soi9qzGuME8oFrkp?timestamp=8723.21">@2:25:23</a> - <strong>JD Leonard</strong> </p> <p> So I'm looking forward to sharing those as they become more clear to me. Yeah, you know, and I mentioned this to you when we first started talking about all this, about, like, I just had this vision of, like, where things are sort of bootstrapped. </p> <p> Where if there was a platform that people could just sign up to and get their membership group onto for, like, $100 a month or something. </p> <p> And then that would start, like, financing the development of something bigger. I think once we've got the basics of you can send emails to contacts and you can have event registration and you can track who are members, right? </p> <p> Like now that opens up the possibility for such a service to exist, right? Yeah. Well, cool. It's going to be a good year for Drupal. </p> <p> Fingers crossed. Yeah. All right, Andrew. good chatting and talk soon. Yeah, you too. Have a good one. Take care. </p>