Member Platform (Hybrid In Person & Zoom) Meeting on March 27, 2025 (#3512550) · Issues · project / member

Member Platform (Hybrid In Person & Zoom) Meeting on March 27, 2025

>>> [!note] Migrated issue   Reported by: [jdleonard](https://www.drupal.org/user/80902) >>> <h2>Google Doc</h2> You might find the <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/16k6YBD-hPZxajwO-MWcJrnrDTk8dSXezI4hHa3qEPxI/edit?tab=t.0">Google Doc</a> for this meeting (from which the notes are copied) to be easier to consume and to include additional detail (e.g. comments) not present in this issue. If this meeting hasn't happened yet, find and add to the agenda in this doc anytime before the meeting. <h2>Member Platform Meeting</h2> March 27, 2025 at 10:00am CDT (11am EDT in Atlanta) <h3>Meeting Notifications, Agendas, Past Notes, Slack Channel</h3> See <a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/member/issues/3505938">https://www.drupal.org/project/member/issues/3505938</a> <h3>Who is here?</h3> Include your Drupal.org username in parenthesis if you have one. <ul> <li>JD Leonard (jdleonard)</li> <li>John Locke (freelock)</li> <li>Daniel Guidry (dguidry)</li> <ul> <li>Living Church of God (NC)</li> </ul> <li>Leona Dorothy (thelioness22)</li> <ul> <li>Living Church of God</li> </ul> <li>Lee Walker (mr_scumbag)</li> <ul> <li>Boy Scouts of America</li> </ul> <li>Caleb Thorne (draenen)</li> <li>John Picozzi (johnpicozzi)</li> <li>Matthew Tift (mtift)</li> <li>Joseph Rajewski (jrajewski1073)</li> <li>Lawerence Miller (ldpm)</li> <ul> <li>American College of Physicians</li> </ul> <li>Avi Schwab (froboy)</li> <ul> <li>YMCA</li> </ul> <li>Jess Snyder (jesss)</li> <li>Luke McCormick (Cellear)</li> </ul> <h3>What Topics Should We Discuss? / Limited Human Notes</h3> <ul> <li>(meeting will be recorded and analyzed with AI)</li> <li>Introductions</li> <li>Overview (the recording didn’t start until after this item)</li> <li>Membership Entity in Drupal 7</li> <li>Openy_memberships</li> <li>Sometimes need to connect to other existing system</li> <li>Next steps and assign action items</li> </ul> <h3>Action Items</h3> <ul> <li> </ul> <h2>Fathom AI Summary</h2> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD">VIEW RECORDING - 41 mins (No highlights)</a> <h3>Meeting Purpose</h3> <a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=60.0">Discuss the development and architecture of the Member Platform project for Drupal, including scope, integration, and sustainability considerations.</a> <h3>Key Takeaways</h3> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=600.0">Member Platform 1.0 aims for a "meetup.com light" functionality for single organizations, without payment processing initially</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1206.0">Key architectural decisions needed on configuration management, CRM integration, and use of Drupal recipes vs. modules</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1369.0">Building a sustainable contributor community and governance model is crucial for long-term project success</a></li> </ul> <h3>Topics</h3> <h4>Current Scope and Vision</h4> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=600.0">1.0 scope: Basic membership and event RSVP functionality for a single organization</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1135.0">Future goals: Conversion funnels, integration with external CRMs, more complex membership types</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=507.0">Target audience: Small organizations without technical expertise, potentially via SaaS solutions</a></li> </ul> <h4>Architecture Considerations</h4> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1206.0">Debate on using Drupal recipes vs. modules for configuration management</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1260.0">Modules favored for core functionality to ensure maintainability and upgrade paths</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1920.0">Recipes could be useful for starter content or vertical-specific setups</a></li> </ul> <h4>CRM Integration</h4> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1388.0">Discussion on leveraging existing CRM projects (e.g., CiviCRM) vs. building new functionality</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1396.0">Need for abstraction layer to connect with external CRMs and APIs</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1485.0">Potential to create a generic API or adapters for common CRM systems</a></li> </ul> <h4>Data Model and Extensibility</h4> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1942.0">Importance of separating contacts/users from memberships</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1852.0">Need to support complex use cases (e.g., multiple users per membership, seniority tracking)</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=1971.0">Balancing simplicity for basic use cases with extensibility for advanced needs</a></li> </ul> <h4>Project Sustainability</h4> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=2209.0">Over 90 people in Slack channel, 16 committed contributors so far</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=2246.0">Emphasis on building a diverse contributor base to avoid single-person dependency</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=2265.0">Consideration of governance models, potentially including paid memberships for organizations</a></li> </ul> <h3>Next Steps</h3> <ul> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=2402.0">Contributors to add their intended contributions to the issue queue</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=2442.0">Draft functional specifications for various components</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=2449.0">Continue discussions on architecture, governance, and sustainability in the contribution area</a></li> <li><a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?tab=summary&timestamp=2299.0">Explore potential governance models, drawing inspiration from other projects like LocalGov Drupal</a></li> </ul> <h3>Action Items</h3> <ul> <li>Document car club use cases & business rules in Member Platform issue queue - <a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?timestamp=1999.9999">WATCH (5 secs)</a></li> <li>Create issue in queue for participants to specify their intended contributions - <a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?timestamp=2206.9999">WATCH (5 secs)</a></li> </ul> <h2>Fathom AI Transcript</h2> (JD’s note: speakers names are missing due to all participants being in person) <a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD">VIEW RECORDING - 41 mins (No highlights)</a> those things that your membership entity with just that little very specific membership. So I would say that's probably the biggest limitation and then the other side of it I think was just the, I think there's some improvements that could be made between like the architecture terms versus the membership itself versus profiles. And then you have things like the group small now then and so there's some overlap and just trying to figure out how those either work together to provide the whole picture or and so there weren't lot of connections between those. It was kind of like you have your groups over here, you provide them over here, you know maybe your CRM down here and then you have memberships. So I'm very interested in seeing how that could work as part of as a piece of the CRM puzzle, you know it's membership. So I think there's a good He said that was learned and doing that as far as you're dealing with terms, dealing with, I mean, membership numbers and all that kind of stuff, but it needs to be part of a bigger. It is one little piece of the puzzle that they can't be a couple of some things that by itself. Yeah, and we've ran it all those things. And that is where most of our work came in, doing those together and figuring out what you were doing. And along with and all the various pieces. And yeah, I probably agree. The other comment that I was talking with Jamie on the AI project, who's very opinionated on CEO and stuff. And yes, have you thought that was that? I have, yeah, so he's got his contacts, CRM, which is the other Drupal native CRM that has any recent activity. And his concept of that's that he had for. roles that could be applied to users, to anonymous people, to organizations, roles, and so I wanted to make sure we're aware of his concerns and thinking about it, first, you know, it's a very opinionated thing. We tried that three times in all these different ways and it had the fundamental flaw. Yeah, I had a call with him a couple, I don't know, few weeks ago, to sort of just connect on what we're doing. And I think the big difference between the architecture of contacts versus the architecture of CRM is contacts takes the approach that every contact is a Drupal user and including even organizations, right? And so like, it's little weird. You're kind of overloading the concept of, you know, a user is. But there's some advantages because there's a lot of things that you can already do with users like send emails to them easily and things like that. So it's sort of like a fast on-ramp to like getting a lot of things there, but yeah. But he was also divorcing the user entity from authentication. That's right. So that's the key thing. So we've got our user entity that already has all these connections, and not necessarily someone would actually want it. Yeah. And so that is one of the big architectural decisions that we'll need to make is like, what CRM do we want to invest in and contribute to and leverage? Is it CRM or is it contacts or is it none of the above? I'd love to avoid creating a whole CRM in the process, right? that be a different project that everyone else can benefit and leverage from, you know, different ways as well. So for people who just joined us, we did some introductions on, but you just introduce yourself. You're interested in number platform and whether there's a membership organization that you're involved with that you have in mind. Also, we are recording on our Zoom call. We're the only people on the Zoom, though. LAUGHTER Hey, I'm Avi. I'm here because I heard you guys want us to know about July. And yeah, so I've worked on Open Li in various forms since 2020. And yeah, I don't have specific applications for using Webber platform, but I wanted to share ideas and help you guys out. Thank you. Who else? I'm Jess. My name is Work at W-E-T-A-C-S-M-C-R for Washington. Similarly, we're not quite the use case for a member of the platform, but I am also one of the sole organizers of the Dream Open on-profit groups, and this seems relevant to my general constituents here there. So I just want to keep an ear off. Thanks, Jess. I'm Luke, uh, sell ear on various platforms. I've been bugging and thinking about lots of things involving this for a while, so I've been speaking around. But the things you might not know about me is I'm incredibly old, and 35 years ago or so, grew up at Thesis Project, uh, in my Undergraduate Computer Science program that dealt with, uh, like, a community organization thing, and I ran two startups during the dot com boom that were focused around communities of people. So I've been interested in this, like, general area for, like, a long, long time. Very good. Well, welcome, everyone. Um, so our agenda is a little bit undefined, and we're kind of bouncing around, but that's fine. Um, I think those who joined already are somewhat familiar with what we're doing, so we'll rehash things. Um, but yeah. What else do people want to talk about? Otherwise, I will generate agenda on the fly To me maybe that means like CRM could be Consituent or customer and this is more sort of constituent rather than customer or Obvious how you are viewing that so I don't know that I have a strong opinion on that yet It sort of depends on the choice of CRM right that we leverage the CRM namespace that project is taking the approach that the Concept of membership should be tracked as a core part of CRM So I think a lot of if we go that direction right a lot of the work that member platform would do would be really just contributing To like a sub-module of the CRM project around membership And then I think a lot more of what we would be doing in like a member namespace would be around of making a really good user experience for like our target audiences, one of the goals of the project is to help organizations that don't have somebody with technical expertise. So it has to be like easy enough to use for somebody who can use Gmail, right, to like dive in and actually like administer this thing once it is up and running. And so eventually, right, I think my hope is that there will be one or more SaaS solutions out there built on top of member platform that would allow an organization that is small, doesn't have a lot of money and doesn't have a technical person to hand over a credit card, pay a monthly fee and just get access to member platform, right, and be able to communicate with their people, you know, do all the things they need to do and not reinvent the wheel, you know, the way that a lot of them do now with doing things like Well, we have to set up MailChimp, we have to set up this thing, and we have a spreadsheet to track this, do's payments, accounting, and there's a lot that organizations do that we can try to centralize and let the organization focus on the organization's mission, rather than on their necessary bureaucratic processes to operate. To answer your question, not really. I guess I was just curious if there was maybe, you mentioned meetup.com, is that the kind of thing that you're sort of initially at least made me think more? Yeah, thanks for the prompt. So, loaded question there, the member platform 1.0 scope is sort of Pitched as meetup.com light for one group So if you're familiar with meetup.com there are lots of groups on there and you can go and join a group and RSV for events We're saying there's only going to be the one group, right? It's the organization, right? Whose website this is you go to that website and you have a way to join that organization So 1.0 scope. It's not there. Nope. There's no payment processing involved or free, right? So imagine you're you're going to your local Drupal users group, right? You would join On their website and then you could RSVP to their events receive Communications from them when their new events announced or when there's something they want to tell you about the upcoming event you RSVP to And you know things like that, right? So Simple basic and also there's an appetite the Drupal community to move away from meetup.com Double their prices last year so there's Right pricing You But meetup.com is a separate site from the organization's website. It sounds like there's some desire to have this as part of the beautiful site. Correct. Okay. So that actually answers a question. I had been probably about this, not like the number of life cycle. And so it sounds like what police to start with here. You're either member or you're not a member of that. That's where we're at. It's an envision that at some point we're perhaps going to start degrading. Like, I'm not talking about this. You know, you know, we have the cause of the sign up for newsletter to become a prospect. It was money. It was money. money. It was was money. It was money. money. It was money. was money. was money and Absolutely, so there's like a conversion funnel, right, for nonprofits, somebody who you don't have contact information for, to somebody that you do, now they're a contact, and then you want to convert them into a member or donor or something like that, right? so, yes, ability to track that and communicate with them, depending on their, you know, classification is definitely kind of the direction we're headed. Yep. That actually helps me as well, because I was a little, I'm still somewhat concerned that if I bring my opinions in the classical sense, if I bring the things that are meaningful to me in my professional role, to the table, that it will represent a significant scope creep because our organization is by a lot of standards huge. So, some of the things that like, at the table up and on it, I was like, oh, I wonder if this would be something contribute is like little things like we have come conditions for block visibility based on do status. And so there is a, so I am happy to contribute that if there is a thing that we can say, and maybe that can become a configurable thing, but in the wider sense, like we need to do status for us as an API call through our, through our other CRM, that is not injuryful. So some of the things I was thinking five minutes ago, we're like, oh, I wonder if there would be an appetite for clearly CRM agnosticism would be ridiculously difficult, but maybe a, here are some, here's a toolkit that can get you part of the way, if you're already on Salesforce, if you're already in our case personify, which is not a, but like, did not go for that case, so that those same kinds of information, and honestly that's a lot of what my group has been doing for the last 10 years is making things that are on our CRM, like where the CRM is the source of truth, making the website respect that so that it's not just like you're authenticating it. Yeah, so I mean, certainly, I think there will be many use cases of integrating member platform with external systems, maybe because they're the source of truth for, you know, who's a member who's not, that would be fine and you want to benefit from the other features, sure, why not? Even with CVCRM, like maybe you use CVCRM and, you know, yes, there's a way to sync data today from CVCRM into Drupal, but then you don't have anything else in Drupal that leverages like there's not a lot you can do with that stuff in Drupal natively, right? So like, that's definitely a possibility. I think that all of your users' stories would be, I think, where to collect all of them, because there's a ton of those out there. Today, we have a a lot of this stuff, if you have an action plugin to connect to your whatever service you're providing, that's easy swap it out with a different one, or a Drupal Native action, and all this stuff, I think is a lot easier to create now on proper BCA, ship recipes for it. All of that is entirely doable, but I think if you can capture all of this scenario that you've already used and found valuable, that would be great to collect all of those and make sure that we're not closing the doors on any of those. So it's an implementation plan whether or not it's a burden. And I mean to that end, using kind of external form of metrics, that's a lot of what we do with Open Li, we have the page builder experience, but then there's also the whole data side of it. And so we have, you know, there's like a whole classes, you know, you focus with lesson, or whatever. But then there's also a member kind of abstraction layer and a donations abstraction layer. So taking, I think some of the value that could be there if you want to is using existing schemas. there's a whole like schema blueprint situation. So using existing schemas for whatever these things are, whether they're or donations or whatever. And then creating, you know, creating the data model in Drupal, but then being able to connect that out to the other APIs. So the model that we use for open Y for that is, know, we have one Y using one CRM. And, you know, we have the existing data model, but then that Y will kind of build the connector, the connector that to abstract, you know, to get from there API to to our data model. And then, you know, Drupal's really good at providing that kind of abstraction layer. so then as you bring on more people, you can. you know, say, you know, it doesn't matter what you're at the eye is, here's our data model, but make the two talk to each other. You have a consistent data model, which is beautiful. Cool. Yeah, and we'd love to learn more about like your data model around memberships and how you track that at the Y because I know my local Y has a variety of different memberships and some of them are kind of complicated to track and would love to learn from your your learnings open Y underscore memberships is the module. Thank you. think this is open Y underscore memberships. That one might be on GitHub. I will find it. But no, yeah, I mean the memberships and the donation stuff is less defined because it is more abstract. We also have like a whole kind of funnel to that a little literally having this conversation this week, but a lot of what we do is just finding ways to funnel people out to a deep link in that other CRM. Because, you know, yeah, because there's already a payment gateway, there's already a whole thing, there's already a whole CRM that needs to collect information, but often their front ends are really bad. And so, so, so a lot of the work we do is figuring out how to get a deep link from the remote thing and getting people to that deep link in a way that's better than the way that they're being sent there. So, know, the funnel up to the actual payment and the account creation is done on the local side. So, you can track a lot of that part of the funnel, but then, you know, we still send them out to kind of do the final thing. So, it sounds like you may want to keep people in the system longer. Which, you know, optimally, you would do all of the things on Drupal, and on whatever their, your kind of site is, because then you can actually let information. You can do payment processing, connect to Stripe. Things are all there. yeah, I mean, sometimes you just want to get them, you want to provide a better funnel than the ones that CRM XYZ. One dumb new guy question that maybe has an idea. So question is, you haven't built any code yet. So the recipe question. Well, recipes are all the rage and I think we will undoubtedly use recipes to some degree. I think one of the big strategic and architectural questions we need to answer is key configuration that's sort of key to the member platform, it's something we want to maintain and provide upgrade path for. does that live, right? Does it live in modules? Modules, does it live in recipes and there are trade-offs, right, to those things. that's one of the big questions that we haven't answered yet. I'd like to get a better understanding of what the configuration update sort of management tools are that exist in Contrib now. I gather some exist. Yes, that's why somebody mentioned a few obvious questions. That's why. I think you'll listen to it on top of your phone. Very good. But yeah, that's a big question. My gut reaction is the that I think we should bite the bullet and do the extra work to maintain some of that key configuration in modules to really focus on long-term sustainability and maintainability for the project, for the end users, of the project. So they can benefit from new things. And so we're not like, what Drupal CMS does is really is a change record that has manual steps for you to take to get your configuration to match the latest new thing that they change, right? ugh, right? And for our primary target audience of folks who maybe aren't technical, that's not feasible, right? And even if there's like a SaaS provider or something providing a solution, it's a hard thing for them to do, right? like, how do we make it? We need to keep costs low as well, because our target audience doesn't have a lot of money. that's kind of the goal. So, not a straight answer, but yeah. I think it was great. And then kind of talk about the CRM thing, right? I'm wondering what does it make sense for every platform to happen at a like a module level or maybe some modules of the three points of the time. You have the ability to submit audits or issues of the different CRMs. I value what Abi said about like a module level tool. It's too long to do all the things in people, but like, there's going to be a large subset and for this to be successful. A large subset of those people are going to have a CRM that I cannot get my order This thing, but I still want you So like wondering That's like something you thought of, if not, there you go. Yeah, no, it's a great question. I think there definitely going to be use cases where we've got an existing CRM. We want to keep using that, but we have to keep using that, right? So let's sync some data, right? do something that allows you to benefit from the front end, you know, benefits member platform and your goal. I feel like that kind of tool gives you something that I use the phone that I'm working on, because I'm already doing it. And in fact, we're about to relay our API. Right now, the way we communicate with Persona 5, the Persona 5 API is a little bit, it's been built kind of here and there. So it's a little bit, there's a library that we generate, we're getting HP off of SWAP, a SWAP SWAP or or a SWAP or SWAP a SWAP. Thing, but then there's also a module, which is. kind of overbuilt for the purposes or re-simplify things, I think we could probably create a relatively robust module that says as long as your API has an open JSON compliance, essentially an ETP if don't have those contracts, then we can help you pair all of those. I mean, that's what we're Okay, so I didn't know that this membership platform would be able to structure whatever it is. I think there could be some possibility of that. Creating a generic and a API, or you could have a number of them. This is CRM, or that's CRM. The Salesforce Suite of Drupal Modules does have like a Salesforce sync thing, It's little clunky, but it's very powerful. Like you can map different Salesforce entities to different things in Drupal. so taking that and kind of maybe extracting it, and it'd be great for them to then share, right? leveraged that thing, I think could be powerful. a lot of the integrations we've done that ends up being duplicates. So, you know, we take the strategy of everything in Drupal and then sync your data with whatever service Salesforce or like that, and make sure it's bit of a boom. people go and like, patches of things are changing on both sides. you've got to sort out and do it with the hands. But aside from that, that's the approach we've been taking, it's worked really well. I'm doing tons of integrations, so that's the end of the start. And so that's something that could plug in. I mean, as long as we have the data model, Robust enough to handle all the things that you think, and that then the second part is kind of to be plugged by. At the risk of usurping you meeting, it sounds like we're starting to form a subcommittee on a larger installation. I was just going to ask, who wants to lead it? Are you stepping up? Yeah, I plan to come to the table and say we have a team luncheon a little bit, but after that, was plenty fun for you. Excellent. There is open-wise CRM integration, the part of there I'd like to have a platform for. We, like, I would imagine the wires are connected with a lot of these CRM's already that you might already be working with, like, a lot of these integration, but we've made connect with the data model that is in open-wise specifically, but I would imagine all of these could be abstracted or just taken, but also the aside that we're getting API endpoints in any rational structure, I guess, it does not match up with my experience in working with different CRF. We're always having to do place after, even sales force, it's like which sales force, which, but if I'm understanding correctly, to kind of bring it back, like in 1.0, it's not talking about any integration with outside system, because we want it to be useful. And so I helped build the original configuration system maintain for 10 years. You know, a life of fixing people who are breaking the configuration system during a thing that's not supposed to do, and to me, it seems like with this kind of thing, if you want people to be able to maintain it and not break things that modules are going to be the way to go, because you have to know things are there, you have to know about them. integration in recipes are one and done. So recipes for this seems like, I mean, yeah, I'm like 20 minutes into this project and I'm saying architecturally only pull in recipes if you just want to display data in a different way or something like that. That's the feedback we're looking for. And I won't, yeah, I'm sorry, I don't I don't want to mobilize it, but yeah, but also we talked about that with personalized stuff. Yeah, that's the way all of the features are in modules and modules, you know, we basically have two like testing paths. Anytime we're developing feature there's a brand new install of it and there's like take a database that's six months old and like make sure that you can like update. And so we'll have update, we'll, you know, we'll have all of the new config in there like kind of bundled as a feature. whatever capital lowercase, however you want to tell it. But then also have the update host that use config importer, what it like, that's the other thing. And basically, yeah, pull in the new config and override it. But then that also introduces governance things where if you are, if you're running a SaaS platform, it's kind of perfect for that, because like, you know, the users can't make any changes, but if you do have customizations there, then figure out what customizations are where I deal with that a lot. But yeah, I think we, if you want to run a SaaS platform open-wise, it's a pretty good model for kind of doing that thing, but I would love to. I would like, I'm going to take Matt's new brain, but that's okay. But back to the question of the use of recipes, right? Like, I think we would use recipes, recipes, particularly around like starter content or demo content, and maybe, be further down the line when we were targeting different use cases than group user groups, right? Maybe having like a version of this thing that you spin up, right, using a recipe that is for your specific vertical, right? Like you are a trade association or, you know, you are a sports team or, you know, whatever whatever it is, right? because some of those things, it's like just really the setup and like there's probably not a lot of meetings to be done around those things but the core of like what memberships are and what the data model is and you know, some of that I think sounds like the lungs and modules. One of the challenges we ran into with membership entity is we designed it for the complicated use case of these car clubs and it worked really well for allowing us to compete. They had some members. They wanted to keep track of seniority, know, hugely political. the organization, you know, 20 years you were, you know, high up there and so they had to know, you know, all of that information and, know, wanted to keep track of all that. So we designed it with all of that complicated configuration in mind. And then we tried to take that module and apply it to a very basic membership organization. And it was just way too much. And it involved a lot of configuration for a very simple use. So I think that's one of the big challenges that I've liked. I mean, we need to have those options for those complicated use names because we needed that for those, those card clubs and they could use any of the other like groups, modules or things like that, that because they had all of these hiding custom, you know, business rules and and membership entity was able to achieve that. So I think recipes could be eventually solution to that if the architecture still reports, advanced configuration. If there's a recipe that says you just want to have basic membership site, here's all the standard, you know, stuff configs in a recipe and you apply that and it's kind of that one and done thing. And there could be recipes for other advanced youth agencies, but still having the ability to support advanced configuration. And on that, no, one of the things that I think definitely should be built in from the beginning is that, you know, contacts and users are not memberships. And I think that's one of those challenge, you know, you might have multiple user accounts associated with single membership. Right. things like the membership terms as their own, as their own objects and their own abstraction. You know, I think those are some things that that build probably need to be architected in at the beginning because so that so that it support those things. Even if the first 1.0 is a very simple version of that, you know, having that foundation is important to support the more custom configuration later on. Completely agree. so our sort of MVP scope, while it does not include actually building out all of the membership types, it does include thinking through the requirements for that and making sure that whatever we're doing for 1.0, we could easily support that extensibility and complexity in the future. ACTION ITEM: Document car club use cases & business rules in Member Platform issue queue -<a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?timestamp=1999.9999"> WATCH</a> And I think something that I'd be having to do now, work on it this afternoon and putting in some of those issues for those very specific things that we ran into with, I mean, our experience with our clubs. that's kind of the niche there that informs a lot of what we built into membership entity. So I can put in, know, those use case in those business rules that we had to work around, and there's probably better ways to implement them. But having a document that seems like it could be beneficial. Fantastic. We're working with a Yacht Club right now in society for thoracic surgeons, but we've done software academy with family memberships and sessions that scopes and prorating of those sessions. All that sort of stuff. There's a business plan that would sell members of memberships to assess things, and then we put that group for authentication so a company would buy a subscription for however many users they need to work out starting in all of the terms and you know how much review when they have a user, all of this stuff. So I think the architecture is good base and it's just where it is at. And I don't think we have to decide where it lives to figure out what the architecture we want is, right? And once we figure out what the architecture we want is, we can see, well, that line with the maintainer of the CRM project, for example, if so, know, how much of it lives in the CRM project, because it's more generally applicable, you know, to just what we're trying to do. So lots of coordination to be done. And I don't know, some of this discussion in some ways worries me, because we're thinking about four steps down. And so many people have tried this before. sounds like, including multiple people in this room. And some projects in Drupal have found a way to make this work, like web form, or it sort of begin to involve, you know, thing. And I just wonder if you have any thoughts on that? But like, how are you going to keep this from going the route of red end or some of these other abandoned projects? Because it seems like one of the things that just pains me is I want to recommend some of these other simple exclusions. But I have much more confidence that CBTRM is going to be around than some of these other modules that are distributed for a little bit. But have you thought a little bit about how to, you know, long-term sustainability of the project? Yeah. Yeah. So yes, sort of. So one of the approaches that I've taken is not just going and building something, right? But rallying the troops and trying to get as many contributors as possible. ACTION ITEM: Create issue in queue for participants to specify their intended contributions -<a href="https://fathom.video/share/q8sREiAeCJhAndzEfh6_gNMW3euvUZJD?timestamp=2206.9999"> WATCH</a> So we've got over 90 people in the Slack channel now. We've got, I think, 16 people who have explicitly said, that I'm going to contribute in this way. And so that's another call to action I have for y'all, is we've got an issue in the JUQ, please go in there and the things you just said you're interested in like contributing and helping with, just write it down. And that alone, right, is going to help you feel a little more empowered and like part of the team. That's the point of that issue is like, who's on the team? What are they going to do? And it helps everyone understand what everyone else is there for. You know, I want to avoid like, keep person risk and like, I don't want to be like in the middle of everything. Like, I want to shepherd a bunch of people to go and do all the great things for all the organizations. And, you know, if I get hit by a bus, I expect that to continue, please, right? So I want there to be, you know, processes in place and plenty of people have the access they need and, you know, to kind of continue things. I think the governance model, you know, for the project is something that will come up at some point. And it might be little too early, because we're still so early and kind of in things here. But that's a conversation that I want to have and like figure out how do we. How do we not make this about JD, right? And have everyone feel like they're getting a fair shake? The organization's kind of being heard. The local Gov Drupal, I think it's distribution, takes an interesting model, an interesting approach to this. They service councils which are government entities in the UK and they have like a membership model for the councils where they can sign up to be a member and basically pay to be a member and that doesn't get them anything. But it's a model to help fund central development of sort of the important things and the priorities for the organizations. And then I think they have some sort of voting model or something to influence like what gets worked on next or something like that. They also have, I think like a, not exactly a membership model, some way that mirrors the Drupal credit system for services. organizations or professional service organizations, so agencies and things, who can basically, if they contribute to the right projects, they get credit and they have the option to then pay and be listed in sort of provider directory. So I thought a little bit about some of these things about how can we try to build an ecosystem that's not just around volunteer contributors, but is maybe bringing other entities in, but would love some help figuring it out. It's important to do that early on because otherwise it will go off in the direction of whoever the law is, and that might not be the best to most use. Especially if I no, no, no, no, no. If want to contribute an issue to the issue queue, just consider some of the governance stuff. That'd be awesome. Cool. All right. We got five minutes left. Anyone else have anything on their mind? Cool. So, let's break, let's reclaim our five minutes and I think it's lunchtime starting in five minutes and then I'd like to see a bunch of'all in the general contribution area where like the third table in, can't miss the member platform time there. So come on over, we'll figure out how to like actually move things forward today. We've got some issues there already, there are functional specifications that can be drafted if you're, you know, got that up your sleeve. You know, we've got a bunch of things you can go work on or we can have intense discussions around governance and around architecture and around, you know, this and that. Thanks, everyone, for joining me.

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