>>> [!note] Migrated issue <!-- Drupal.org comment --> <!-- Migrated from issue #2490332. --> Reported by: [kgoel](https://www.drupal.org/user/820356) >>> <h3 id="summary-problem-motivation">Problem/Motivation</h3> <p>At core conversation session by @kgoel at DrupalCon LA , 2015 on <a href="https://events.drupal.org/losangeles2015/sessions/pain-points-learning-and-contributing-drupal-community">"Pain points of learning and contributing in the Drupal community"</a> , several people mentioned that they don't like IRC and they don't get on IRC.</p> <p>During core mentoring at PHPWorld and people from other Open Source community said that they don't use IRC and its 1990's chat client which is way too old to use in the Drupal community and why Drupal still lives on IRC.</p> <h3>Problems with chat, regardless of technology used</h3> <ul> <li>Too much overhead to add new channels for ongoing projects.</li> <li>Many channels don&rsquo;t have ownership or moderation</li> <li>No integration with our projects. Channels are made independently from the project</li> <li>Cognitive load each time you return to a channel to see what's changed</li> <li>Chat isn't necessarily the most effective way of communicating (versus issue queues, audio/video or face to face)</li> <li>It risks being a significant time sink / distraction</li> <li>Drupal is a global project and some contributors will always be in a difficult timezone compared to others</li> <li>People's ability to participate in chat is affected by whether English is their first language</li> </ul> <h3>Concerns people have voiced about IRC</h3> <ul> <li>There is no scroll back/history/asynchronous conversation native to the platform (requires a proxy such as bip or znc or using a 3rd party service like IRCCloud). Issue applies to channels and private conversations.</li> <li>Few high quality apps, especially for mobile devices (IRCCloud app is not entirely free)</li> <li>The lack of a &ldquo;user is typing&rdquo; indicator slows down conversations (counter-argument: indicators not always reliable, may become a distraction / put people off writing a reply of their own)</li> <li>Many contributors haven't used irc before, and new tools can be a struggle for even technical users (counter-argument: IRC webapps make IRC easier to use, but it is still more of a challenge than modern alternatives.)</li> <li>Although possible, it is difficult to create hooks into third party services.</li> <li>Usage is dropping on IT circles for maybe a decade now (IRC protocol is on decline)</li> <li>Doesn't do voice, video calls or conferences</li> <li>Lack of modernization for sharing files (Services like Dropbox, Google Drive are not preferable because it fragments the community and if any of these services die, the files are gone forever. The files are not either instantaneously available in the client)</li> <li>Can't show media, like photos, maps, etc. (Support of media is dependent on IRC client)</li> <li>Can't share stuff permanently. (ie, can't host shared media forever)</li> <li>Doesn't support login by email address or phone or external credentials</li> <li>Can't login from multiple clients and share username without magic like nickname aliases</li> </ul> <h3 id="summary-proposed-resolution">Proposed resolution</h3> <h4>Requirements for chat system:</h4> <ul> <li>Open source</li> <li>Backscroll/offline History</li> <li>User typing indicator</li> <li>RTC (audio/video)</li> <li>Bot integration</li> <li>Mobile support</li> <li>Future integration with d.o/projects</li> </ul> <h4>Possible solutions:</h4> <p><br><br> <strong>1. Create/switch to <a href="https://matrix.org">Matrix</a></strong></p> <p> Matrix is an open standard for decentralised communication, providing simple HTTP APIs and open source reference implementations for securely distributing and persisting JSON over an open federation of servers.</p> <ul> <li><strong>Pros</strong> <ul> <li>Open standard/API</li> <li><a href="https://webrtc.org/">WebRTC</a> compliant/superset</li> <li>Various ways to <a href="https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html">connect or integrate</a></li> <li>Has all the current "features" of IRC + <a href="https://www.drupal.org&lt;a%20href=%22https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-irc%22&gt;additional%20features&lt;/a&gt;">more</a></li> <li><a href="https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc">Integrates with existing IRC servers</a> + channels to facilitate migration or keep usability parity (i.e. support stubborn people who still want to only use IRC).</li> <li>Standardizes <a href="https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-a-mxid">user identifiers</a>/<a href="https://github.com/matrix-org/sydent">authentication</a> (e.g. @username:drupal.org) which would allow for easier discoverability and the ability to initiate chats with other users.</li> <li>Allows for future d.o integration (i.e. web based RTC) and possible per project/issue chat "rooms"</li> <li>No need for "user creation" as this could be tied directly into simply using their current d.o account/authentication.</li> <li>Read their <a href="https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html">FAQ</a> for more info.</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>Cons</strong> <ul> <li>Not "IRC"</li> <li>Newer technology?</li> <li>Requires a little bit of setup to create our own "<a href="https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-a-home-server">homeserver</a>", but this is rather trivial and well documented. A "homeserver" really only helps to facilitate the storage of data, provide <a href="https://github.com/matrix-org/sydent">authentication</a> and <a href="https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#do-i-need-a-turn-server">RTC discoverability</a>; most of which is automatically handled. It's really just a matter of setting up the proper config.</li> </ul> </li> </ul> <p><strong>2. Keep existing <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat">IRC</a></strong></p> <ul> <li><strong>Pros</strong> <ul> <li>We currently use it</li> <li>Open standard/protocol</li> <li>Multiple GUI applications</li> <li>Many other FOSS projects use IRC, so contributors to those projects can easily join the Drupal channels</li> <li>Optional user creation, no register user required for use</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>Cons</strong> <ul> <li>Old - lacks modern features needed</li> <li>No API/automated integration (bots must be manually constructed and hosted somewhere)</li> <li>No history/offline history built-in</li> <li>GUI applications - inconsistent implementations (i.e. what "features" are provided)</li> <li>Optional user creation, required if you want to keep a "consistent" user identifier</li> </ul> </li> </ul> <p><strong>3. Do #1 and #2.</strong></p> <p><strong>Other solutions mentioned - Free/paid services:</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="http://www.matrix.org/" title="Matrix.org">Matrix.org</a> is another Open Source chat service, locally hosted slack clone / free SASS. Currently has dozens of FOSS servers, clients (most popular client is Riot.im) and integrations, including IRC, GitHub, and much more!</li> <li><a href="https://gitter.im" title="Gitter.im">Gitter.im</a> Github/Gitlab integration makes this a place for FOSS chat<em>. Has been bought by GitLab and will turn FOSS during summer, to allow people to use it as a locally hosted slack clone</em>. Free service.</li> <li><del><a href="https://slack.com/" title="Slack.com">Slack.com</a>, SAAS. Meets most of the features requirements listed, but does not meet goals related to FOSS/privacy philosophy. May require paid service.</del></li> <li><del><a href="https://hipchat.com/" title="Hipchat.com">Hipchat.com</a>, SASS. It meets most of the features requirements listed. 3rd party integration, but does not meet goals related to FOSS/privacy philosophy. May require paid service.</del></li> <li><a href="https://telegram.org/" title="Telegram.me">Telegram.me</a> is a WhatsApp clone, with Open Source clients and a proprietary server. Supports channels, groups and private conversations and has many bridges/bots, including for IRC. <em>Since recently, also supports voice calls</em>. Still, it's less feature full than the others. Completely free service.</li> </ul> <p><strong>Other solutions mentioned - Self hosted software:</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="http://www.matrix.org/" title="Matrix.org">Matrix.org</a> is another Open Source chat service, locally hosted slack clone / free SASS. Currently has dozens of FOSS servers, clients (most popular client is Riot.im) and integrations, including IRC, GitHub, and much more!</li> <li><a href="https://rocket.chat/" title="Rocket.Chat">Rocket.Chat</a> is another chat service, locally hosted slack clone, the most popular of the FOSS kind for big companies and organizations.</li> <li><a href="http://www.mattermost.org/" title="Mattermost">Mattermost</a> is another Open Source chat service, locally hosted slack clone.</li> <li><a href="https://gitter.im" title="Gitter.im">Gitter.im</a> Github/Gitlab integration makes this a place for FOSS chat. <em>Has been bought by GitLab and will turn FOSS during summer, to allow people to use it as a locally hosted slack clone.</em></li> <li><a href="https://zulip.org/" title="Zulip">Zulip</a> is another Open Source chat service, locally hosted slack clone.</li> <li><a href="http://sdelements.github.io/lets-chat/">Lets chat</a>, F/OSS. Node+Mongo, meets many of the requirements listed, but not as integrated or used as slack. Also needs to be hosted locally. </li> </ul> <p><strong>Other solutions mentioned - IRC magic:</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="https://www.waartaa.com">Waartaa</a> is an open-source solution with a responsive web interface based on the MeteorJS library for browser-to-server communication and syncing. It connects to IRC on the back-end, giving users the choice of using the web interface or a traditional IRC client</li> <li><a href="https://convos.by" title="Convos">Convos</a> works on top of IRC. F/OSS, has backlog, desktop notifications, content previews.</li> <li><a href="https://irccloud.com/" title="IRCCloud">IRCCloud</a> Has a desktop, android and ios app, has all the features above and there are several people using it already.</li> </ul> <p><strong>The why and why not <del><a href="https://slack.com/">Slack.com</a></del></strong></p> <ul> <li><strong>Pros</strong> <ul> <li>Some developers already have Slack app running</li> <li>Has many of the above requirements</li> <li>@todo</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>Cons</strong> <ul> <li>Closed source/proprietary</li> <li>In it for the money: <a href="https://slack.com/pricing">https://slack.com/pricing</a></li> <li>"Free" plan is intended for <strong>small to medium</strong> sized business/teams (Drupal is anything but)</li> <li>Requires users to register</li> <li>Architecturally has several types of limitations since their service is based on "small to medium" sized teams: <a href="https://medium.freecodecamp.com/so-yeah-we-tried-slack-and-we-deeply-regretted-it-391bcc714c81">https://medium.freecodecamp.com/so-yeah-we-tried-slack-and-we-deeply-regretted-it-391bcc714c81</a></li> <li>Prohibitively expensive to get backsroll</li> <li>Does not have all of the above requirements</li> <li>Does not and will not support Open Source Communities</li> <li>Allows users to easily impersonate other users on d.o [comment#233]</li> <li>@todo</li> </ul> </li> </ul> <h3 id="summary-remaining-tasks">Remaining tasks</h3> <ul> <li>Evaluate <a href="https://about.riot.im/">Riot.im</a> EULA &amp; Privacy Policy as possible matirx service provider.</li> <li>Get DA to evaluate <a href="https://about.riot.im/">Riot.im</a>.</li> <li>Have users use example riot/matrix IRC bridge <ul> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-contribute:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-contribute:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-support:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-support:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-infrastructure:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-infrastructure:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-commerce:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-commerce:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-media:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-media:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupaldevdays:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupaldevdays:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-belgium:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-belgium:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupalcampbe:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupalcampbe:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-portugal:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-portugal:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-nl:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-nl:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-search:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-search:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-vm:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-vm:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-drupalorg:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-drupalorg:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-aegir:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-aegir:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-migrate:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-migrate:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-in:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-in:matrix.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-console:matrix.org">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#drupal-console:matrix.org</a> &lt;-- Gitter bridge</li> </ul> </li> <li>Finish Slack bridging with riot</li> <li>If Riot is not a long term option, create a strategy for implementing matrix in house.</li> </ul> <p>Poll / survey kindly created by @pwaterz:<br> <a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/XKZPYBC">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/XKZPYBC</a></p> <p>See results at:<br> <a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-6R9V6KKK8/">https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-6R9V6KKK8/</a></p> > Related issue: [Issue #2706381](https://www.drupal.org/node/2706381) > Related issue: [Issue #2905773](https://www.drupal.org/node/2905773)