>>> [!note] Migrated issue <!-- Drupal.org comment --> <!-- Migrated from issue #3312901. --> Reported by: [jurgenhaas](https://www.drupal.org/user/168924) >>> <h2>0&#65039;&#8419; Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself! We&rsquo;ll keep the meeting open for 24 hours to allow for all time zones.</h2> <table> <tr> <td>jurgenhaas</td> <td>J&uuml;rgen here from Gottmadingen, Germany - with lots of rain these days :rain_cloud:</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>:wave: ralf from n&uuml;rnberg. i suppose roughly the same amount of rain over here lately</td> </tr> <tr> <td>mxh</td> <td>Max from Offenburg, it's rainy here too :d</td> </tr> </table> <h2>1&#65039;&#8419; Do you have any topics to propose for the meeting today? Post in this thread and we&rsquo;ll open threads for them as appropriate. Or you can post them directly in the channel with the next number as an icon. That topic will then turn into a thread for the comments.</h2> <table> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>hm i think a topic i could have suggested already last time but i forgot is a11y. i&rsquo;ve looked through the interface and listed the points that struck my eyes the most.&nbsp; also collected the issues already open in regards of a11y upstream. but i think it would be good to write those into a thread. i number code&nbsp; those so we could discuss the next steps. cuz a few are a bit lets say complicated.</td> </tr> </table> <h2>2&#65039;&#8419; What are the planned next steps in ECA or related modules?</h2> <table> <tr> <td>jurgenhaas</td> <td>I can currently only keep up with general bug fixes, reviews and support due to high workload for a customer project. Not much development possible for the next couple of weeks.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>mxh</td> <td>Similar for me. Will work on the render issue today for a bit. Won't be available the whole October due to vacation.</td> </tr> </table> <h2>3&#65039;&#8419; Current a11y status</h2> <table> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>the first is a general eca issue on the models list page. the visually hidden labels for drop buttons are sort of redundant. turns out that is inline with the general drupal core pattern. discussed that in the last a11y office hour&nbsp; and opened an issue afterwards: <span class="drupalorg-gitlab-issue-link project-issue-status-info project-issue-status-1"><a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3310147" title="Status: Active">#3310147: Improve the visually-hidden label for drop buttons</a></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>2. models in bpmn are build as an svg compared to rete.js where you have html 5 markup. having interface components as svg makes it more difficult to access them via the screen reader.edit: one problem is&nbsp; that the none of the model elements is reachable by the keyboard nor the rotor in the screenreader. the model is basically&nbsp; long list of nested group tags.and if you select one start element for example in the model for one you are unable to reach the corresponding control overlays (the 5 small icons) but with tab you are able to tab directly into the properties panel. the other alternative the forms for that start element are also available in the rotor. but jumping from one element in the model to the next or even follow business models from the start to the end is impossible. it is also impossible to &ldquo;deselect&rdquo; the selected start element to get back to the global properties panel view.&nbsp;(edited)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>3. hovering on elements like field outlines or buttons arent highlighted and or changed in color (also the mouse pointer isnt changing. (if i remember correctly unable to test right now the toolbar on the left has no changes at all to the cursor nor the toolbar icons)&nbsp;(edited)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>4. the toolbar is unreachable by the keyboard nor the rotor if you are using a screen reader like voice over on the mac.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>5. open issues for bpmn-js&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/bpmn-io/bpmn-js/issues/1548">https://github.com/bpmn-io/bpmn-js/issues/1548</a> (make diagram accessible for screenreaders - hamidrezaabroshan)fixed issues for bpmn-js:<a href="https://github.com/bpmn-io/bpmn-js/issues/1716">https://github.com/bpmn-io/bpmn-js/issues/1716</a> (render sequence flows in front of other flow nodes - nikku)<a href="https://github.com/bpmn-io/bpmn-js/issues/1616">https://github.com/bpmn-io/bpmn-js/issues/1616</a> (Distinguish selected element vs. hover - davegoldin)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>6. if you drag a component on the canvas like a start event you get a lighter representation of the old position while you drag the event component with a blue focus outline. but the grey placeholder has only a color contrast of 2,18:1. (175,176,174/ 255/255/255). should be 3:1</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>7. fixed issues for the properties panel:listgroup flashes with unsorted content when reopened and needs to sort<a href="https://github.com/bpmn-io/properties-panel/issues/107">https://github.com/bpmn-io/properties-panel/issues/107</a> (barmac)use <button> for buttons in the group entry<a href="https://github.com/bpmn-io/properties-panel/issues/45">https://github.com/bpmn-io/properties-panel/issues/45</a> (barmac)</button></td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>8. fixed issues for the bpmn-js properties panelDelete button not accessible via keyboard<a href="https://github.com/bpmn-io/bpmn-js-properties-panel/issues/505">https://github.com/bpmn-io/bpmn-js-properties-panel/issues/505</a>. (mschoe)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>9. potential open issues for the bpmnjs properties panel:an aria-describedby could/should be used on textfields to associate the label element with the text field.add an outline for fields on hoveron extension properties the upper, lower end as well as the left side of the focus outline are cut. (have to retry in the interface to remember exactly what that note was about)&nbsp;(edited)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>10. open issues for the element template chooser:- focus style for element template choooser list view has too low color contrast<a href="https://github.com/bpmn-io/element-template-chooser/issues/7">https://github.com/bpmn-io/element-template-chooser/issues/7</a> (reported by me)already fixed issues for the element template chooser:- when navigating a long list by keyboard the list doesn&rsquo;t scroll<a href="https://github.com/bpmn-io/element-template-chooser/issues/6">https://github.com/bpmn-io/element-template-chooser/issues/6</a>. (also reported by me)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>11. one detail that has no issue yet. it is hard to recognize the outline of the element template chooser on a white canvas ( in the context of 3:1 color contrast for interface components)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>that is a rough overview about open and fixed a11y related issues as well as issues that you notice when you try to navigate on the eca / bpmn model page</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>but the most difficult point is navigating on the model page with the keyboard and the way more complicated point is how to navigate with a screenreader.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>there was one person in the channel who is a screenreader user if i remember correctly?</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>would it perhaps be possible to have a chat or even video call?</td> </tr> <tr> <td>jurgenhaas</td> <td>Thanks a lot @rkoller that's a huge list. But I wonder, what we can do about any of those issues. Looks like none of those issues can be addressed by us, that's all a different playground. How should we go about that?</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>that was the reason why i wanted to bring it up in here first instead of just report each issue upstream. it might be helpful in particular about the last point if we would have a rough idea how things might be fixed instead of just posting detail x doesnt work for screen reader users for example.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>for context mark weiler also posted the question over in the a11y slack <a href="https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/C08J06DKK/p1659960517465919">https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/C08J06DKK/p1659960517465919</a></td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>one question why are models saved and displayed as svg files? is there an option in camunda to export a model into a pdf which would explain the decision to pick svg as the format?</td> </tr> <tr> <td>jurgenhaas</td> <td>Discussing possible solution paths here doesn't seem to help much. The technology is completely managed by other people and the discussion is not Drupal related in any way. Wouldn't it be better to discuss it with the community that (a) maintains and (b) uses that technology?</td> </tr> <tr> <td>jurgenhaas</td> <td>PDF vs. SVG for export might be worthwhile discussing, but for displaying something in a canvas which is to be used interactively, I don't see how PDF would help there in any way.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>mxh</td> <td>If you currently get a WSOD on your site, that might be causes by a current problem when upgrading the Twig library to 2.15.3. The temp workaround is to stick with Twig 2.15.2 until a new Drupal core release is out.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>i dont wanted to discuss the choice of svg. i just asked if you or anyone else know by any chance why svg was chosen as the format. just wanted to get an understanding why svg was chosen. i dont wanted to discuss the choice here. was just curious about the reason of that choice before writing up issues upstreamand i dont suggested to use pdf. i just wondered why they havent used html5 instead of svg for the interaction - like rete.js does which i&rsquo;ve mentioned above.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>@mxh ahhh the error comes up even without updating a site?</td> </tr> <tr> <td>jurgenhaas</td> <td>I don't know the answer to that. But I would have gone for SVG myself as well. It is just a natural choice to display vector graphics in a browser.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>mxh</td> <td>if the hosting provider is automatically upgrading the codebase, then yes</td> </tr> <tr> <td>mxh</td> <td>otherwise it shouldn't come up, it's only when upgrading the codebase.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>@mxh&nbsp; ahhh damn. i havent upgraded core-recommended (and therefore thought twi wouldnt be upgraded). but i&rsquo;ve upgrade drush and devel and that upgraded twig as well. now i know why the error turned up.&nbsp; have to downgrade later or wait for the upgrade</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>@jurgenhaas i agree vector graphics it would be the right pick but in the case of bpmn there is also interaction. and if you try to navigate by keyboard or the screenreader things get more complicated. i&rsquo;ll have to take a closer look at rete,js and how they create the markup</td> </tr> <tr> <td>mxh</td> <td>This issue was regarding screen reader users: [#3300259]The OP of that issue is current using the core modeller module, as that one is at least working for that AFAIK</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>ahhh thanks! but looks like that janner isnt registered on the drupal slack. :( that would have been the easiest way to ask if it would be possible to have a video call or chat.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>i will ask janner on the linked issue if it would be possible to have a video call.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>mxh</td> <td>Maybe use this issue for that [#3300252]as it's not closed, whereas my first linked one got closed.</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>yep i already went that issue the first you&rsquo;Ve linked got closed for</td> </tr> <tr> <td>rkoller</td> <td>made an update to point 2.</td> </tr> </table>